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Cat5 in a warehouse 2

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PeaveyPhones

PeaveyPhones

Technical User
Dec 5, 2003
219
US
I need to install 6 Cat5 cables in a warehouse. The distance is about 50'. 30' horizontal to the workstation, along a concrete wall, then 20' down to the workstation. Electrical circuits/conduit will be installed in the same path, probably prior to the data cable. Is it acceptable to just zip tie the Cat5 to the EMT that the electrical cables are in? .... Ya'll can stop screaming at the computer and cursing my name now. I don't really think this is a good idea. What are the proper ways to do this? Is EMT ok for voice and or data cable? Do I need that smurf stuff? Help.
 
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Well simply put it is a violation of the NEC to ziptie your data cables to the electrical conduit.

You could run EMT along with the power and pull you voice and data in that. If you do, you should use 3/4" as a minimum and if you pull through boxes to the next drop (daisey chaining the conduits) you should increase the conduit size one trade size every time you do. If you have three drops, you would start with 1.25" conduit and go to the first box, use 1" from there to the second box, and 3/4" to the last box. Hope that makes sense, that would be probably the cleanest way to do it.

If you don't want to do EMT, and provided PVC is permitted in the area you are in, you could use PVC conduit or ENT (smurftube) if you like.

You could install J hooks or a similar type of support at regular distances and lay the cables in the hooks all the way to a surface box for the jack. Unless there is risk of damage to the cable in these areas, this may be the cheapest.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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Thanks for your response to my "Cat5 in a warehouse post". I'm at a company that has been doing it wrong for a long time. My boss is totally on board with us raising the standards on all our IT practices. However, we run into the ole "We aint never done it that way before". Where can I find documentation to support my position?
The first week I was here, there was a problem with some PCs and printers not working. Upon seeing the installed cable I changed the question from "why isn't this working?" to "How did this EVER work?" Anyone else have this problem? (he asked knowing he can't be the only one)

Richard
 
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Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I know "about" most of the standards but need to brush up, and be able to present something in writing to the "we ain't never done it that way before" crowd.

Richard
 
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Ok. Got the ziptied-to-electical covered, put what about zipted-to-existing EMT-with-communications-in-it-instead-of-electric? I guess the question really is, does the NEC apply to the conduit, or what's in the conduit? Just a hypothetical I came up with yesterday while I was out pulling cable for the first time in a couple months.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
 
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The NEC is VERY clear. NEC 800.52 (E)
"Support of conductors, Raceways SHALL be used for their intended purpose. Communications cables or wires SHALL NOT be strapped, taped, or attached by any means to the exterior of any conduit or raceway as a means of support."

Kind of takes any ambiguity of it don't you think?


Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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Sure does.

Thanks for including the section number. That's useful!

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
 
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I'd give you two stars for that one if it would work! Very useful! Thanks.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
 
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Yup, National Electrical Code

Check with your local building authority to be sure which codes are applicable and adopted for your individual area. Not all states and municipalities adopt everything right away. Oregon for example makes changes and adds things to the NEC when they adopt it.

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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OK I've been sorting through some of the great info, but have not gotten through it all. Just incase I don't find what I'm looking for,a for the sake of time, I hope ya'll will indulge me in these questions.
1. How should the horizontal cable be run through the rafters? Does it have to be in conduit?
2. When the cable comes down vertically, say 25 or feet, inside conduit, what's to keep it from stretching? I thought that was an issue. I mean it's easier to zip tie it, ever so gently, to the outside of conduit and keep it from stretching?
3. Why is it in conduit anyway? Just to keep it from getting damaged?

Richard
 
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Horizontal cabling should be in J-Hooks or tray or some other approved means of support, it is not allowable to be just laid on the ceiling tile in most jurisdictions, plus it is a violation of the standards. Not to mention dang inconvenient when you are the one trying to re-open those ceiling tiles.

Unless your conduit is over 50' vertical, I do not see a need to worry, but that also depends on the size of cable, big difference in how I would treat 100 pair cable as opposed to 4 pair.

Doesn't matter how easy it would be to zip-tie to conduit, it is illegal as already discussed, plus even if it was legal, it sure looks unprofessional.

Typically conduit is provided as a means of facilitating Moves, Adds, and Changes (MACs). The average life of cabling is about 4.7 years. That’s not due to wear, but due to updated standards and network speed. People always seem to want to go faster.


Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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1. This is a code issue for the most part. It is quite likely that it is not required to be installed in conduit. It could be required depending on the occupancy and code requirements, but I doubt it is for your environment. Normally if it is run through the rafters it would just be through holes drilled in the rafters and supported properly.

2. A 25' drop in conduit shouldn't be a problem. Wire tying the wire to the conduit is a code violation, and it really shouldn't be done.

3. It is likely in conduit to prevent physical damage and to allow for upgrades and replacement as needed.

Hope that helps...

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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1. To be clear about this. The "rafters" (which may be better called trusses or red-iron) I'm refering to are the steel structures that support the roof, run the length of the building, about 6 to 10' apart and maybe 2' high. We've all seen them and I've run cable thru those things many times with no support other than the trusses them selves. Why isn't the truss considered an appropiate support? Why would attaching a J hook to the truss make it any better? The J hooks can't be any closer together than the trusses themselves ...

2 and 3. So the conduit is used to protect and to look good and has nothing to do with performance?

Richard
 
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OK...Conduit can have performance issues, it is a great EMI barrier if interference is an issue.

You need to be supporting that UTP every 4 - 5 feet max.
A J-Hook would be better because it is engineered to support cables that you are trying to send data through.
Not enough supports at the proper distance can lead to cable deformation due to weight and type of support.

Same reason bridle rings are no longer acceptable for Cat 5 and higher cables...too thin of a support base, can lead to the cables on the bottom being deformed over time due to the weight of cables on top of them. Even Caddy one the biggest manufacturers of bridle rings says not to use them for high performance cables.

By The Way...."We've always done it this way" is not an appropriate way to determine if it is right or wrong.
Lots of things we used to do back in the days of quad wire and Cat 3 that just won't work these days as we push the limits of copper conductors for data transmission.
You want the system to last for your customer I would hope.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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