CAT 5 - Residential 2

[PTina]

Hi Everyone,

Let me first point out that I know nothing about cabling. However I have some cabling decisions to make as I'm buying an apt.

I have the option of selecting cat 5 cabling for networking throughout the unit. I was informed that with the cat 5 I would not need to run an extra telephone line for a telephone extension in the same room. I'm not clear on how cat 5 will give me simultaneous networking and telephone access as my research indicates that cat 5 is a data line.

If this is possible can someone please explain how? If it is not possible I would also like to know as this means that I would need to run both the cat 5 and telephone lines to the room

Thanks

 

[PTina]

I'd also like to know if $165 CAD per outlet is reasonable(it's a small 2br and the outlets would be rough in).

 

[smegecki]

Cat 5 is a 4 pair cable, ethernet uses two pair (orange/green pairs or pins 12,36 of 568b color code)Leaving the blue pairs or the brown pairs available to split out for voice (fax,modem,phone,etc). so,YES, it is possible to split out a pair for voice, but this is not standard. The only way to do it properly would be to install 1 cat 5 and 1 cat 3 to each location or 2 cat5's and just terminate one as voice.

As for the cost $165 for 1 data is way to high. What do you mean by "CAD"? And when you say "rough in", I assume they are terminating these on cat5 certified jacks and patch panels and not just leaving the cables themselves roughed in. For $165 they should be able to provide certification results, wire map ,next(near end cross talk) etc. Also in an apt/condo the rooms are less spread thus decreasing cost of material(cat5 footage).

If this helped let me know or i can elaborate.

Pboyer

 

[PTina]

Thanks, this really helped. I was also reading some of the other posts in this forum and now understand how voice & data can work on the same cable. I also see your point about it not being standard and running 2 cat 5 or 1 cat 5 and 1 cat 3. Hmm, something to seriously think about.

CAD = Canadian Dollars, I'm in Canada.

The contract states 'rough in' for all outlets, so I guess that means that yes they will be leaving the cables for me to get done on my own through some 3rd party. Hence why I am doing all this research.

What is wire map (a map showing the layout of all wires in the unit?) and next(near end cross talk)?

Thanks again.

 

[mikeydidit]

I would pull in 1 cat 3 and 1 cat 5 or even 5E cable and have the contractor do the terminations and test. If they consider their selves good enough to do your drops, they should be able to do your testing and terminating. If not, get someone that can. I don’t like to use the same cable for voice and data. Splitting the cable pairs as smegecki stated is against what the codes and standards set for networking cabling. I also do not like to use more than one contractor to do the same job. It gets it to he did this or they did that and the end result is your still not working and fighting with one or both. Have someone that knows what they are doing do this for you, and you will not have any problems with it. Get a bad job done and look forward to spending more money (CAD) to have someone that does know what they doing fix what the others messed up.

Hope this helps..


Mike Jones
LSUHSC

 

[smegecki]

I don't know how to convert CAD's to US dollars but it still sounds high. And if you need to supply the jacks, face plates, and labor to complete the job it definately seems high. I would recommend a vendor that can do the entire job.

I am here in B-more md and i have a little side business setting up residential home networks.

If your cable is terminated poorly and you loosend the twist
in the pairs it is likely that you will fail next.

* Near end crosstalk (NEXT)-This is unwanted signal coupling between cable pairs occurring mostly at the near end to the cable where the transmitted signal is applied and where the signal is strongest. Or put another way, NEXT is a measure of how much signal energy is radiated from one transmitting pair and capacitively coupled to an adjacent pair (of conductors). Thus, NEXT is defined as the ratio of the strength of transmitted signal to the coupled signal measured on the adjacent receiver pair, so the higher the value, the better. Because it is frequency dependent, NEXT is also measured at multiple frequencies (steps) over a specified frequency range. Crosstalk is the major factor limiting UTP performance.

Yes wire map is the layout of wires to pins.

* Wire mapping-consists of checking connector pinouts to detect faulty pair wiring on all four-pair connections (pins) of the cable. The most common errors are crossed pairs, in which the polarity is reversed at one end; transposed pairs, in which two connectors are wired to different positions at each end; and split pairs, in which the continuity of a connection is correct but wires from two different pairsare used. While this cable has correct pin-to-pin continuity, it will cause errors in data transmission due to an excessively high amount of crosstalk.


There are others as well atteuantion or loss, length or distance (no more than 90m). If you need more let me know.

 

[ANFPS26]

Looks like it's about $122 US:

http://www.x-rates.com/cgi-bin/cgicalc.cgi?value=165&base=CAD

Jim

 

[smegecki]

Nice work ANFPS26. Yeah i'd say thats too much for a single cat 5 jack in a residence. Probably twice as much as it should be.

 

[skip555]

for a small two bedroom go wireless

take wahatever the contractor supplies as basic and do wireless network and phones from there

worse case you have to go back and add a drop or two later you could do it yourself

 

[smegecki]

I wouldnt go wireless there are security issues and speed limitations if you transferring big files on your lan you'll want 100mbs (movies,mp3,images). 802.11g only runs @ 54 mbps

 

[PTina]

Wow. Thanks for all the info. It has sure helped me a lot.

It does seem pricey to me too, especially since it's per jack so it will run me about $500 total (1 in the living/dining and 1 in each bedroom). It is a new development so running the lines during contruction is the best option. I do however feel that we are being fleeced as the same contractor is going to be doing all the apts on the building and will therefore be able to get volume discounts etc on raw materials etc. So there was really no need to jack up the prices.

But it's either that or getting someone to do it afterwards which will probably be more difficult and messy.

 

[smegecki]

Do it now or yes you will regret it! And if your paying that much you should get both a voice and a data.

Goodluck
Pboyer

 

[fs483]

I'm in Canada too and I do find it a little too pricey but like everyone says, do it now while you can or you might regret it later. If you have it professionally installed, companies charge under 100$ CAD. As you might have seen here, you could have smurf tube (plastic tubing) installed to allow you to install any type of data cable later on. You might also want to have Coax RG6 quad shield installed if you plan on having cable/dish in the rooms. If it's during the rough in before the walls are up, it shouldn't take more than a few hours to have all that done.

 

[NX01]

You could break up the concrete and use a gel filled cable? Look here

http://www.mohawk-cdt.com/prod/fiber-11.html

if you have your heart set on Aerial setup...



In the future everything will work...

 

[NX01]

wrong thread...go about ..

In the future everything will work...

 

[p1nk1e]

I was just noticing the price per drop at $165CAD whick is approximately $115US. Way to much money per drop. I hope you did not pay for it. 1000ft of CAT5e cable is $55USD just at Home Depot. CAT5e jacks are $2.50-$5.00 per jack. If you were a contractor the price is even less. Make sure you get a warranty on the all the cable. If he is a good contractor he will certify the cables and give a warranty of 5 or more years.

 

[Jtodd]

Sorry, if he's a good contractor and certifing, he shouldn't be buying parts off the shelf at Home Despot (SP intentional). That's my snobbish opinion on that.

As for the rest, I'm not up on what prices are for residential work, but in the commercial arena, if pricing by drop (which is how some estimate), $150-200US per is not unheard of. But for that price, you should be getting everything.
In one of the posts, it makes it sound like the owner just wants to put in the cable and leave it to the tenent to terminate. If this is the case, I wouldn't pay anything over $50US per drop. But definately have them do it before the walls go up.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay

 

[PTina]

Thank you all for your insights they have been very helpful. Unfortunately, yes I've already signed of and deposited on the job; the final price list was conveniently not available/compiled before my appointment to select and sign for the upgrades. So basically my goose got cooked there.

However it may not be all bad. I had initially only selected 1 BR for the CAT 5 upgrade and so they will need to run the pipes from the Living Room to the BR.

Rather than have them add CAT5 to the other BR and select to have CAT3 installed for reg tele service in all rooms - which is what I was planning to do. I will just get a technician to do those after I move in. The pipes would already be in place so it should be relatively easy I think for the technician to do - I've already contacted one.

I can't believe this, I had actually misquoted the price for the networking it's not $165 (that's TV cable) it's $195 for the CAT5 cable. It is unfortunate that developers feel that they need to rip off the unsuspecting public, but alas I'm hearing that it is very common here in Toronto - BEWARE of the 'Upgrades'.

 

[skip555]

are you sure they are running condiut (pipe) to each location ?

they very well may be just taking the cable down which would not give you a path to add after the fact

if they are quoting for the runs to be in conduit then the price is not out of line in my opion but that would not be the norm in my area












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