Can tone and probe damage phone system? 3

[JRRB]

Can a tone and probe such as the Progressive 701K that I may buy damage our Lucent control unit if I plug the tone module into a jack that is connected to the unit at the other end? Will simply disconnecting the extension lines from the control unit make it safe to proceed? Fax, fire, security, credit card processing, etc. is run through a separate line so I was not concerned about damaging/tripping anything else.

I know this is pretty basic stuff but appreciate any help. Thanks.

For more background:

I'm with a small non-profit that has a late 90s Lucent Partner phone system using 2 lines and 5 extensions, several 66 blocks next to the control unit as well as others throughout our two small (and very old) buildings. Half the wiring, which terminates to centronics connectors with RJ45 adapters laying on the floor rather than in-wall RJ11 jacks, is not labeled.

We have 3 unused extensions. Several rooms are wired but hooking up a phone does not work as the wiring stops at one of the 66 blocks and is not connected to the control unit. (The wiring pre-dates the system.) I was hoping to trace the wiring to the main blocks so I can activate it by connecting the correct pins on the 66 block to the control unit's unused extension ports.

I know a pro could do this with ease, but I'm kind of set on understanding this myself and am willing to purchase the tone and probe, punch down tool, etc. to do so.

 

[Telecomp9434]

Depends on the probe. Some older models have a metal tip, so when you are probing the 66 block be sure not to touch the metal pins as this may cause short in the main control unit. If you have a platic tip then you should be fine.
Hope this helps.

http://www.telecomp-inc.com

"voice and Data Solutions"

 

[JRRB]

Thanks, Telecomp. So the tone generator can't do any damage?

 

[Telecomp9434]

No- you should be ok...

http://www.telecomp-inc.com

"voice and Data Solutions"

 

[JRRB]

Great. Thank you again.

 

[dagwoodsystems]

If using a probe with metal tip (as I do), simply hold the speaker next to your ear while squeezing the tip between your palm, ring finger and pinky. Use the index finger of your other hand to run down the center of the blocks while listening for tone.

Why do I use the metal tip? Because it comes in handy when I'm trying to isolate tone that's bleeding across several pairs. If tone goes away while shorting a suspect pair (which I do with my probe's tip), then I know I've found the other side. As mentioned, you gotta be careful that you don't knock out a port with this technique.

As far as the tone generator goes, I'm in agreement with Telecomp9434. But even though I haven't hurt any equipment with that component, I once smoked my own tone generator while trying to ring out a live circuit! Heh...that was a stroke of genius!

You're fine, bro.

Tim Alberstein

http://www.dagwoodsystems.com

 

[JRRB]

Thanks for the "tips", Tim!

 

[mforrence]

Although it should be fine with Partner ACS, I caused a 300 phone IP Office to reboot by applying tone to a digital port.
Won't do that again!

Mike

 

[tanderson3733]

Depending on software release and hardware age, a 300 phone IP Office would reboot if you sneezed near it - that's a lot of phones for IPO.

 

[Mountainbear]

When in doubt tone a different pair on the same cable. I only do that when the wiring or equipment makes me really nervous.

 

[JRRB]

So I wound up getting an 801K, which worked great despite all the power lines in close proximity. It turned out there were four more 66 blocks in another part of the building where I have to install a cross connect as well. A test with leads and alligator clips worked fine so am getting a punch down tool to connect everything properly.

Despite reading what Tim said, I accidentally connected the tone generator to an active extension briefly. Phone system didn't seem bothered but the tone generator quickly alerted my nose that it didn't like the 44V.

Thanks again all.

 

[cwc3]

its never been good practice toning on live pairs you can usually tone a spare dry pairs in the same wire takes a bit longer but you you don't have to worry about blowing out a digital port or Card....

 

[Mugsiensedgwick]

I've heard that before, but sometimes one has little choice but to tone to the switch.
It's a nasty bugger because tones are killed by the switch, but I've never seen it harm either a port card or a len.

 

[SYQUEST]

I agree, the only phone system that I recall that blew fuses on the station side was the Premier/Intertel stuff when the battery pair was shorted. But I have never seen a toner device blow anything! The probe is the item that could short the pair, if the tip is metal.

....JIM....

 

[cwc3]

Iwatsu omega was real easy to blowout that way shorting or
toning...

 

[fonedude]

I had 2 bad experiences with IPO 412s. I was toning analog ports on the 412 with a progressive 77. I found the tone and realized that the IPO was continually rebooting. When I got closer I smelled the smoke. I had a spare IPO and replaced the 412. Something on the main board was burnt. I figured it was the new IPO.
The next week I had a similar toning on the same IPO 412 on a different analog port. Sure enough I blew up that 412 too.
Lesson learned.
I never tone live circuits on any IPO with those analog toners. I use the fluke 200 digital toner. It is primarily for ethernet ports but will not hurt any ports and could be heard on live ethernet switch ports.
Good Luck

 

[cwc3]

yes never tone on live circuits

 

[Mugsiensedgwick]

I am not familier with the IPO 412, but I am guessing that it uses POI, and in that case one would not want to tone, with the exception of toning with a Digital Tone Generator.

 

[SYQUEST]

The problem with the IPO is that there is nothing robust about it. It could not protect itself if its life depended on it! The power supply is a worthless wallwart! It does nothing for the WESTERN ELECTRIC lineage! It is not a USA product! It comes from England, Avaya bought the British company that invented it. It should have stayed there! The analogue station ckts are so puny they barely will even ring a C4A ringer. So for loud ringers, or for that matter any ringing device that needs a real ring generator, you have to add ring boosters, if you want them to work properly. Loop current is very limited also, not even 48VDC.

Had to vent, end of rant!

....JIM....

 

[MasterRacker]

Jim, tell us what you really think...no, maybe not - this is a family forum.

Jeff
[small][purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/small]