Can I use Linux for a Database application? 7

[Frink]

Hallo,

Don't know if this is the right forum for this sort of question, but here we go.
I'm looking to set up a database for a clinic in the 2/3 world. This would involve supplying all hardware and software in what will probably become a 3 or 4 pc system.
I'd like to use Linux as the latest Windows is prohibitively expensive, but my db experience is all MS Access, so am looking for a similar application to use. Simplicity and ease of use are the keys for me.

I guess my question is: is there a Linux MS Access clone I will find easy to use?
The problem is that I'm inherently lazy so would prefer someone to recommend a package with examples.
(Also an OS, as I really am a Windows boy making his first faltering steps with Linux.)
I'm a programmer, but do enough compiling at work, so don't want to be compiling operating systems and database servers. Is that too much to ask

- Frink

P.S. I have a 486 to develop this thing on, is that enough?

 

[KermitJunior]

Sure Linux will fit the bill. Depending out how hefty your database interaction is as to the machine... use plenty of RAM.

MySQL is you database you want. If you want web access (php interaction), I'd recommend Apachetoolbox.com Select what you need and toolbox auto compiles it in for you.

Good Luck,
KJ

 

[Frink]

Hallo again,

Thanks for replying. I don't want to appear dumb (although that may be inevitable) but what exactly would I need to get an application up and running?

I'm used to Mr. Gates' Access which is a single file. You doubleclick on it and it opens. You can create your tables, forms, reports code modules and it all works lovely (no really, it's rather good!)
I guess I just need it explained in words of one sylable.
My system is to be 3 or 4 PCs networked together, but not on the internet. Traffic will be low.
MySQL is a server which runs on a single PC to provide access to my data tables to whoever asks for it, is that right?
MySQL Control Center runs on the same machine (keeping it simple) and allows me to create my tables.
Am I right in thinking MySQL Control Center does not provide the ability to create forms for data entry and controlled searching. I need to put a really simple, easy to use hci on my app.
If that's all true then I need some way of creating forms to display the data, and buttons to add new records and instigate searches etc. What are my options for that? Ideally something that doesn't involve to much programming in 'C' or the like, and I certainly don't want to have to keep recompiling my OS or any such nonsense

I hope that all makes some sort of sense. I really would like to use Linux as an alternative to Windows, particularly in this stand-alone system, but it still seems a bit awkward to use, to an outsider. I'd like to think that Linux is getting easier to use, but am not sure if that is the case.

Hopefully you'll be able/inclined to answer some or all of my questions,

Thanks in advance,

- Frink

 

[awreneau]

If you havent already done so, determine which distro you are going to run. I recommend you buy a boxed set so you can get help immediatley from RH or whomever.

Second, make sure you choose on the install the package MySQL and whatever else you need.

Also, my personal favorite is a 3rd party called WEBMIN it allows you to manage your server, 1 remotley and 2 it can manage alot of different servers.

Or you could get phpmyadmin, it's also a 3rd party tool that ONLY interacts with MySQL.

Both packages offer point and click. One thing I suggest you do is if you intendt to run WEBMIN, make sure you do it from the LAN side, as far as I know when you log into the service on

http://64.39.129.22:10000

the usrename and password is not encrypted, so if you logged into the server from

http://192.168.1.22:10000

your activity would not be viewed or transmitted over the internet.

For all practical purposes you could always just get SSH and run command line, if you go that route go to

http://www.oreilly.com

and get a book named MySQL pocket reference, it doesnt dive into the whole process of what MySQL can do but with a 486 you wont be able to everything with it anyway. The book is cheap and very handy, also if you know of a User Group in your area that is sponsored by Oreilly they could get the book for you as long as you give a review of it. Being your new to linux you should find a usr gropu anyway...by the way I know I "misspelled" user, I meant to

<IMG SRC=

http://home.rose.net/~mreneau/314660.gif

 

[fdalmoro]

I don't think the previous posts answered the question about an Access clone for linux. From what I found, there is none. You have to code a program (Java, PHP, Perl or whatever) that will access the data from MySQL or PostgreSQL.

Hope this helps.

 

[Frink]

Hallo,

Well cheers guys, I was kind of coming round to the idea that there was no Access clone, or similar.

I guess I could write it in ASP...

Would that mean I need MySQL and an equivalent to MS Personal Web Server or what?

Are there any good books or tutorial sites anyone can recommend?

- Frink

 

[xutopia]

Frink,

If you plan to use PHP/MySQL and you have a Windows machine you can use EasyPHP which installs all the necessary components for you.

Linux is harder because it doesn't provide all the graphical utilities like you will see in Windows. But having to write your SQL statement rather than click a few icons to generate it will provide you with much cleaner, safer, faster and more scalable code.

If you do want to use Linux I recommend you download Red Hat as it is the most popular right now. It comes with Postgres and MySQL which are two databases, but you have to select them during installation otherwise they won't be installed. PHP (the scripting engine similar to ASP but faster and free), and Apache (the web server similar to Personal Web Server but 2000000 times more powerful and versatile, though admitedly harder to configure if you do not have a clue what a web server does and how) can also be installed from the install CDs.

Access which is not really a conventional database runs very differently than most Databases out there. As you said it hold a file with all the DB content and the Operating System DB modules takes care of parsing through the file to retrieve and store data. With MySQL (or Posgres) the database is a type of server you connect to and it stores the data you give it in its own set of files.

You can also retrieve the data it has by sending it a query just like you would in Access. Access is only meant for small projects and doesn't work very well with hundreds of thousands of records like MySQL does. Also MySQL allows you to have many simultaneaous connections (very good in a web enviroment) and can grow substantially before hitting a wall. Access files that are more than 20 megs crawl to a halt and can become corrupted really easily (maybe not the latest versions but I remember Access 97 getting corrupted passed a few megs).

You will have to learn SQL syntax or at least brush up with it if you are a regular user of the graphical interface that comes with Access. A good place I often go to when my head hurts is :

http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp

I hope all this info helps you out. I personally fell in love with the PHP/MySQL/Apache trio. I feel in control and I don't have to worry that they will not be supported by MS anymore or that I will have to pay for some licence fee if I want the latest features.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[Frink]

Hallo,

Cheers for all the help, I've been a bit liberal with the magic stars

I think I'll have to get hold of a Red Hat and give it a whirl.

On a more general point, I think xutopia's comment sums the reason I'm not as keen on Linux as I should be. The comment was 'It comes with Postgres and MySQL which are two databases...' my gripe is that there is always more than one of everything.
You probably think that's a good thing, which it probably is, but it just makes it too confusing for someone like me who just wants to use a database server, not have to spend ages researching all the available packages.
Is there a good website which compares various Linux applications?
While I'm moaning then, an always-underestimatedly important part of good HCI is that the user should feel in control of the software. MS Applications are generally good at this, so it takes a while before you realise that you're not in control, whereas with Linux it's all a bit awkward from the start.
And don't get me started about 'make'
You may(?) think I'm mad, but if Linux can convert MS users like me, then the future's bright.

Thanks again for all your help,


- Frink

 

[xutopia]

Frink,

Make is a bit complicated at first but the pattern is really simple once you understand what it means. RPM or .deb files are better for this as it doesn't ask that you know too much. Eases a lot of the installation process.

Eventually it will be as easy to instal/uninstall things in Linux as it is in Windows.

in the mean time whenever you see a tar.gz file you can use this :

1. gzip -dc filename.tar.gz | tar -x
2. cd folder
3. ./configure
4. make
5. make install

1. uncompresses the file in a folder
2. goes into that folder
3. sets up all the initial configuration
4. creates the binaries
5. puts them in the right folders so you can execute the application

The advantages to compiling yourself is that the application is optimized for your processor. This can mean that you'll gain between 5-10% speed compared to old 386 binaries.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[fdalmoro]

I STAND CORRECTED!!! There is an Access clone for Linux, it's OpenOffice.org. Here is the link to the step by step how-to. You still have to install MySQL and use ODBC to get to the database but it's supposed to be an Access clone.

http://www.unixodbc.org/doc/OOoMySQL.pdf

Have fun and let me know if it works out. I don't have a clue of how to use it but will probably jump into it soon.

 

[xutopia]

another star to feross101! Great link! Thanks!

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[ppc386]

Open Office is a pretty heavy application for a 486 Of course, if you are expecting to get all the bells-and-whistles of Access 2000 / WinXP, I can imagine how that would run on the same machine! Another something you might want to look at (although it isn't a database) is Kylix Open Edition. ( It's a heavyweight also, 90 MB download )

http://borland.com/products/downloads/download_kylix.html

The trade-off between a high-level, user-friendly database, and something light enough to run on a 486 is likely to be hard to find. You might also find some food for thought here:

http://www.gnome.org/softwaremap/list/form_cat/68

 

[Frink]

Hallo again,

I tried Red Hat 9, but it refused to load on my 486. Not enough memory. Never mind. I'll get a new machine and try it on that. It will probably be based around a Duron 1.1, with a CDRW. I want to keep it simple, so no extras. Are there anythings I should be aware of before parting with my hard-earned (yeah, right) cash? I'm thinking of any compatability issues/drivers etc.
Can anyone recommend any mobos, or chipsets? I'm not wanting modems or USB or anything like that, although I will need an ethernet connection.

Also if I was to have a web-front end to a MySQL database, what's the best language to write that in? On Windows I would use ASP.

Thanks again for any help,

- Frink

 

[xutopia]

Frink,

Most hardware will run great under linux now. Try not to get the latest higher end stuff.

As far as video cards is concerned I've been using NVIDIA under linux for the last little while because they support the Open Source community by providing drivers for Linux.

A 486 is pretty old but you would be capable of loading it with an older version of RH. Actually it could be used as a router or something like that. I wouldn't depend on such a machine for anything more though.

PHP would be what I would use for the ASP replacement. Especially since it works so well with MySQL.

I hope this helps you out.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
********************************

 

[ppc386]

Yes, one more vote for PHP here.

If you google around a little you should be able able to find lots of info on migrating from ASP to PHP.

You can also find some benchmarks showing how PHP leaves ASP in the dust in terms of speed.

I know you said your new machine would not need a modem, but just-in-case you should decide to buy one, DO NOT buy a WinModem ! Linux requires a hardware-based modem. They are a liitle more expensive, but well woth it in the long run...

 

[xutopia]

ppc386,

&quot;You can also find some benchmarks showing how PHP leaves ASP in the dust in terms of speed.&quot;

Just don't ask Microsoft or the Aberdeen group about this though! LOL

A star for voting PHP!

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
********************************

 

[sleipnir214]

I've written in both VBScript/ASP and PHP.

PHP is superior to ASP in speed, clarity of documentation and features. Not to mention that it's platform-agnostic.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[fdalmoro]

It's been a long time since the last post but this is a promising alternative.

http://gambas.sourceforge.net/

Also have not tried it because it's cutting edge stuff.

Hopefully you guys haven't changed your email's so you'll get this.

Hope it helps.

Fernando

 

[stefanwagner]

There is a graphical frontend for postgres, which is the more mature database on linux:

http://freshmeat.net/projects/pgaccess/

but for sizes, where Access worked, mySql will too be sufficient.
I can not recommend pgaccess from own usage, because I'm addicted to commandline. You'll have to try it out.
There are a lot of database-frontend-products for both, Postgresql and mySql (and of course oracle, informix, ...), because they are true databases - meaning a server accepting connections and transfering data via protocols like jdbc and odbc.
DBvisualizer is a big tool, but afaik not usable to build forms or reports - at least not in the free edition.
But every JDBC-driven Java program should work with Postgres and MySql.

seeking a job as java-programmer in Berlin:

http://home.arcor.de/hirnstrom/bewerbung

 

[Frink]

Hallo,

This has been a while.
I got a new nForce2 mobo PC, which does the trick. Had a bit of trouble with the Ethernet drivers, but got them working in the end.
Developed a simple front end to a Patient Record system. The back end runs on my Win98 PC, but should easily move to a Linux box.
I use MySQL, ezSQL and PHP, which are great.
ezSQL was a nice surprise. Nice and easy to use. MySQL seems ok, although the HCI is a bit basic.
PHP is great. Got some groovy functions in there. I used the soundex (I think, it was a long time ago) function to provide a sounds like search for a given name of up to three words, in any order. It was certainly the longest piece of SQL I'd ever written. But it's fab, although have yet to test it with lots of data.

Unfortunately the project stalled about 6 months ago, when I discovered that a code-based system as used in most modern Patient Record Systems would be better than the free text I had implemented. Unfortunately the 'Read Codes' or the more recent 'Snomed Clinical Terms' have not proved easy to get hold of, without sending off large bundles of cash at regular intervals. Still, I'm working on it.

Thanks for all posters ongoing help. I shall take a look at your suggestions when I have a bit of time.

- Frink