c# vs vbscript...boss not budging 5

[skotman]

Ok here's my situation; I've been moved to a new department where I am to do the programming for internal web/desktop apps. I have tons of experiance for my age (22) doing web programming in ASP using VBScript. My new boss has this idea that NO ASP will be written there and it will all be C#.net. I have no experiance in C# or dot net, I have no problem learning C# but I have to question his motives for going C# ONLY.

His idea is that C# is the way the world is going to be shortly, even though all the existing apps (Access etc) use VBScript, even 75% of the ASP.Net I've seen is written in VBScript.

I need to convince him that C# is brand new, hasn't caught on etc and that VBScript is the way to go. I'd rather him not get his way, and my apps be secure, then he get his way and me have to keep rewriting my apps because they aren't secure. This guy is really bull headed and refuses to change, its his way is right, and refuses to hear anyone elses ideas.

Any ideas?
thanks
Scott

 

[xmsre]

Get the local training provider's price list, and explain that you have no problem learning the technology but do require training.

 

[MakeItSo]

Hi Scott!

Since he's your boss (and a hard headed one as you say), he surely cannot be convinced that you know more than him.
So you must try to play it his way:
present him with a little calculation: estimate the time needed to code it in ASP+VBScript including debug time until the app runs fairly stable. Then estimate the time needed for training in C# until you could start the programming. Include a fair amount of time for debugging since you would program it with the basic knowledge of C# required for the app but without the experience on bug fixing.

Don't leave a doubt, that you find his idea of using C# intriguing and highly professional and that you are willing and able to learn the requirements.
Since you already know a programming language, you have a good start.
Don't try to argue him into letting you do with VBScript.
Simply present him the options (Up quick and safe or Up later and safe later later...) and let him decide.

Boss's love make decisions... ;o)

Andreas Galambos
EDP / Technical Support Specialist
(andreas.galambos@bowneglobal.de)
HP:

http://www.andygalambos.de

 

[CajunCenturion]

How I wish I were in your shoes skotman. You are sitting on the opportunity to learn a new language, learn a new environment, gain new experience rather than repeat past experience, increase your marketability, and improve your resume, and get paid to do it.

Yet you resist?????

This guy is really bull headed and refuses to change, its his way is right, and refuses to hear anyone elses[sic] ideas.

Are you talking about your boss, yourself, or both?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[skotman]

It's not that I have an issue with learning a new language, its that the apps won't be rolled out in a timely matter and be secure.

Scott Heath

http://www.scottspad.com

AIM: orange7288

 

[CajunCenturion]

What an opportunity you have. Embrace the challenge skotman, roll up your sleeves and get after it. Be positive.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[OhioBill]

Scott:

Wake up. The company is willing to pay you to learn something new. My advice? Start working unpaid overtime and be damn glad for the opportunity.

 

[sacheson]

Scott,

Do you realize that:

a) using C# and the .Net Framework to develop web based content *is* using ASP? In the .Net initiative, Microsoft has made ASP more robust, and extended ASP to any .Net compliant language. You're no longer relegated to vbscript to develop asp.

b) the .Net implementation of ASP is more secure than previous versions.

c) you get to learn something new!

I don't see the big hesitation you have for moving to .Net.

Now, not knowing your background, if you *are* a vbscript/asp developer, maybe you'd be better off explaining the merits of using VB.Net to reduce the ramp-up time if you're going to use .Net. Same functionality as C#, same framework, more recognizable structure to the developer.

______________________________________________
there are 10 kinds of people in this world.
Those who think in binary, and those who don't

 

[MDXer]

Not all .NET is ASP. and ASP.NET is nothing like traditional ASP. ASP.NET is more like traditional VB App developemnt with a web front-end.

While .NET and C# have a learning curve you will probably learn faster having to apply your knowledge in a real
world situation.

Scott

It's not that I have an issue with learning a new language, its that the apps won't be rolled out in a timely matter and be secure.


As for rolling things out in a timely manner I really do not see this as something you should concern yourself with to much. He is the manager and has made a decision. If his decision costs the company productivity then it is his responsibility. You may want to communicate any concerns about time commitments that seem unrealistic.

"Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!"
- Daffy Duck

 

[sacheson]

MDXer -

Not sure that I agree with you on the ASP stuff.

First off, it's quite obvious that .Net isn't all ASP. Don't think that reference was made.

Secondly, pre-.Net ASP and ASP.Net do differ, yes. Completely different? I challenge that. Yes, ASP.Net can be approached in a OO fashion, and yes, ASP.Net does implement "true" programming priciples, is type safe, and is more robust than traditional ASP. But a lot of ASP priciples can be applied to ASP.Net very successfully. One does have to learn to exploit the code-behind files, learn the intricacies of the .Net Framework, and think in a more enterprise level. All of that is very doable for someone that seems to have as much experience with pre-.Net ASP as Scott. Caching session variables, query strings, and server side processing - all things that a solid pre-.Net ASP programmer had to know - are alive and well in ASP.Net.

Yeah, there's going to be a paradigm shift anyone making this change is going to have to budget for, but I think it's a) false and b) discouraging to tell people that they're nothing alike.

Lastly, about the C#, .Net and a learning curve, I think you're pretty far from the mark. C# language syntax is structured in a very non VB/VBScript/ASP format; it's a more logical structure, less verbal structure. A person that's migrating from a relatively light scripting language based on Visual Basic, to an enterprise wide full OO framework, *might* experience more of a learning curve when you throw in the relative terseness of a C language. And, quite honestly, a lot of old VB'ers initially make pretty bad C programmers. It was my suggestion that he appease his boss on the technology, but try to convince the boss to leave the syntax up to Scott.

______________________________________________
there are 10 kinds of people in this world.
Those who think in binary, and those who don't

 

[LikeThisName]

i see that scott still has yet to embrace the .Net judging by his personal small biz website.

i am at work and wish my company would move to .Net, there are great .Net editors, and we wouldn't have to use MS Access for any of our front ends anymore because .Net would allow listboxes and such on the intranet. I like Access front ends, but they want everything online, so i'm having to use interdev and do as much as i can in ASP. i'm upset we aren't at .Net yet, but I embrace the challenges.

My advice to scott would be to get over it, if he can't embrace change at 22 it will only get harder for him down the road.

LikeThisName <- ? Sorry It's Taken =)

 

[skotman]

Thanks for all your advice, my site hasn't taken advantage of the dot net stuff because alot of it is really static pages with no need to be dynamic, my thought on that is, use all of over head processing just to display some static html.

I've done some thinking and I'm going to start learning c# by converting some old ASP apps to .net/C#. If anyone has any good reference sites feel free to post them here.
Thanks for everything,
Scott

 

[MDXer]

http://www.gotdotnet.com/

Was developed and is maintained by members of the .NET Product group. This site has some links to other sites as well.

&quot;Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!&quot;
- Daffy Duck

 

[sacheson]

I just came across this today:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/asp.net/asprk/default.aspx

It might be of some use to you.

Several good sites (MDXer listed one above). I haven't found a book that I like so well, as most of them advocate using MSFT controls to handle the logic and I prefer to have full control of my code.

______________________________________________
there are 10 kinds of people in this world.
Those who think in binary, and those who don't

 

[sacheson]

whoops ... I was supposed to preview that.

"Several good sites (MDXer listed one above)" should have read:

Several good site (MDXer listed one above) exist, and are most easily found doing a Google web or discussion search for ASP.Net.

Apologies.


______________________________________________
there are 10 kinds of people in this world.
Those who think in binary, and those who don't

 

[xmsre]

It's not that I have an issue with learning a new language, its that the apps won't be rolled out in a timely matter and be secure. "

The point is the art of negotiation. You need to turn this by saying "yes, but.. this is what it'll take to do it". You add cost estimates, time estimates, training, potential security issues, etc., to your boss' request, and present your boss with an array of options. If your boss chooses to go C# anyway, your boss has already accepted the risk.

XMSRE

 

[Craig0201]

C# OR VBScript?

Why? C# is SERVER side, VBScript can be used for CLIENT side. It's not a choice between one or the other. They COMPLEMENT each other.

Craig

 

[Tarwn]

I would suggest (as was mentioned above) trying to go VB.Net. With VBScript experience you will have an easier transition to VB.Net (which leaves you in a great position to then get a handle on C#.Net).
I can see a few good reasons to this decision to only use C# though. It's possible that other developers and.or development projects are also being standardized in C#. By trying to standardize everything across the board it makes it easier down the road to maintain and change current projects.
While using standard ASP might be faster, that will then split the development languages (meaning their will be two) when (if C# is aleady being used for others) the C# language can be used for both web and app development. Also, the future of stanard ASP may be a littl cloudy as MS continues to move everything to .Net (see info on Longhorn) and tries to push people from ASP to ASP.Net.

One last addition, saying ASP.Net has OO (implying that standard VBScript does not) is incorrect. First, ASP.net is not a language. If we were to replace this with VB.net or C#.Net then we would still have problems. Standard VBScript may not support "true" Object Orientation, but it does allow the use and creation of objects. It does not allow for inheritance, but there are many principles of "true" OO that are not allowed for in .Net (C#.Net and VB.Net do not support multiple inheritance, among other things).

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The never-completed website:

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