Boss behavior - is this normal? 2

[sqlcasey]

Hi,

Just want to get a reality check here. Prior to our company getting bought out, I had a pretty decent manager. Despite a few annoying idiosyncracies (like talking too much!), he was bright and energetic, and actually very helpful at times. I also had a pretty good relationship to his boss as well. However, both of these individuals have since left to pursue much better options elsewhere.

By default, another individual was elected to be the new boss of our department. Frankly, I have never really liked or respected this person. He's frantic and even spastic at times - he often doesn't think clearly or rationally, and is overly emotional about stupid, petty things of no consequence. More than once, I have found myself in an argument with this person (before he was my "boss"), because of his utter irrationality. For example, telling me to do something wrong, and insisting it is right, when I know for a fact he's totally off-base. But he seems more interested in exerting control over me than actually being rational or fair.

I don't know if it's of any consequence that is individual is a man, and I am a woman (a woman he finds threatening, I think as well).

During one particularly stressful period, this person got really verbally nasty with me in front of my coworkers. Not sexually, but abusive for sure.

I reported this incident to a higher-up the next day to no effect.

Anyhow, we have a long history of really not liking each other. Now his latest "thing" is keeping track of what time I come in every day. I find this extremely offensive.

Someone please tell me, does this suck or what?

 

[sleipnir214]

Yes, it sucks.


And?


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[spamly]

I'd suggest creating a paper trail. Although, if it looks like the higher-up doesn't care, you're pretty much screwed. As I've said before, people (like your boss) aren't usually fired because they are bad employees; they are fired (or disciplined) because they aren't liked. If you boss is well-liked, you're probably out of luck.

 

[eyetry]

OK..... I know saying this is really going to stir the pot..... but if I had a dime for every time I heard a woman say this

"...individual is a man, and I am a woman (a woman he finds threatening, I think as well)."

Sometime men don't find strong women threatening. To me it sounds insecure.

To me it sounds like you had a nice relationship with old managment but have personal issues with the new manager. I've had it happen myself, recently. You have several choices

1. quit
2. quit and follow your old managers. Worked out better for them it might for you too.
3. wait out the manager. if you are having issues others may be as well. Things like this have a way of working out.
4. swallow your pride and address the problem directly. meet with the jerk and try to find mid-ground that you can both live with. from my experiece women are much more effective at mending bridges by tweaking the male ego than men are.
5. get his instructions in writing. mention the potential problems of proceding down that path (document it). accept his decision (document it) with a smile (you don't need to document the smile). and let the chips fall where they may. it'll be hard at first but you might find he hangs himself and you look like the hero. you might find that his method wasn't so off the mark.
6. run to HR and potentially create a bigger problem where you both come out the losers.
7. get over it. you might just be carrying a chip on your shoulder.

If I offended you "SORRY". And I mean that.

 

[rjoubert]

I was going to suggest going to HR since his boss doesn't seem to care. Although I don't believe going to HR will necessarily cause a bigger problem, as eyetry suggested.

 

[kmcginn]

I would follow up each assigned task (especially ones you disagree with) by an e-mail so you have it in writing. Copy his boss and say something like - "I just want to clarify that your directions are such-and-such. I'd like to reiterate again that I disagree with that method, and I think so-and-so. (At this point, explain why you think your method is right and his is wrong.) I will proceed with method so-and-so (your mthod not his) unless I hear back from you."

Since you have copied his boss, and explained everything rationally, you have a paper trail. If he responds and tells you to do it his way, be sure his boss knows - if he wasn't copied on the response, forward it.

I had a boss who refused to put anything in e-mail - he didn't want to be tracked. If I e-mailed him about something, he always responded verbally. The only way to get the paper trail is for you to create it by sending an e-mail clarification. That way, at least you have documented what you understood him to say. And, keep all correspondence from and to him - you may need it some day.

Good Luck!

 

[Lunatic]

Granted, I don't have a terribly great amount of experience, but I have worked in and with HR people. The effectiveness of going to HR is entirely dependent on the HR Department.

In one place I worked the HR department was very independent and took things very seriously. No complaint was trivialized. Another place had just placed alot of emphasis on wanting to know if there are problems.

The bottomline is if you don't talk to the HR department, they won't know there is a problem.

***

As for documenting time, that could be shown to be your new manager's attempt to get back at you because you took your grievences above him.

Do others in your area have their time watched? What do you old performance reviews say about your work ethic? If no one else has their time watched and your previous performance reviews indicat a good work behavior this can likely to be shown as vindicitive behavior and something the HR department definately wants to see.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[LadySlinger]

eyetry, you're not too far off. For most women that is the first thing we think.

However there are still moments where men are threatened by women in the workplace. If this guy treats her differently then the rest of his employees (i.e. her example of him being verbally abusive towards her in front of other employees), and no one else gets the same treatment, AND she's the only woman in the department, then she could have a case.

Otherwise him being nasty to her as well as other employees would be a public issue.


Anyhoo - as the others have said create a paper trail. Document as much as possible. If he yells at you, record the date, time, and the issue. Report it promptly to upper management and well as HR. If no one listens get a lawyer...they will definitely listen then.

Othewise if its only a personal issue between the 2 of you, then either suck up to it or just leave. Find something better. Because if he has issues with you, whether you're a woman, you had a good relationship with the previous managers and he didn't, whatever, it's not going to get better there.

 

[sqlcasey]

Thanks, all... really there is no solution here, and that's ok, I've decided, as it is time to move on!

Boss really is #3 on my list... #1 is lack of meaningful work assignments, and #2 is the fact that I can never make what I'm worth here

So even if #3 disappeared, I'd still be moving on to bigger and better opportunities... I know they're out there

 

[eyetry]

Good luck!!!

Sounds like you have a healthy attitude, a good work ethic and take pride in what you do and who you are.

I've never had a bad job, bad boss or bad HR department that hasn't been surpassed by a better opportunity. Sometimes I've taken one step back so I can take two steps forward in my career. Don't be affraid to consider it.

 

[SaishuHeiki]

Best wishes to you, sqlcasey.

Remember that, although you are leaving this job on a down note, there are always silver linings.

My previous two jobs were horrible... low pay, uncaring supervisors, etc. However, I made it a point to learn as much as possible from both jobs. That qualified me for my current job, which I love.

Think about how much you learned there, and laugh because they can't take that away from you.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
It is easier for an intellegent person to "play dumb" than for an unintellegent person to "play smart". - gbaughma

 

[IT4EVR]

Does the paper trail method actually work? It seems like an awful lot of pain and suffering to go through, not to mention, a lot of extra work.

Your whole day will revolve around your paper trail. And inevitably, one day you'll forget to send that email, etc. Then you'll hate yourself in the morning because of it.

I only ask because I have worked with some paper trailers. And it never seemed to get them anywhere but tired and pissed off.

Personally, if a job IS THAT BAD, you're better off dusting off that resume and looking for a new job.

 

[IT4EVR]

Eyetry, your advice, albeit seemingly harsh, was right on the money...

 

[aarenot]

I am assuming you want honest opinions or you would not ask so, I am going to be straight forward.

This guy got the job for a reason. You did not get the job for a reason. if your relationship, and reputation was as good with the previous bosses as you say then maybe they were not as highly regarded as you might think. If yours, or theirs were that good, their recommendation for you to get the job would have made you the boss now.

It sounds like the real issue is that he got the job instead of you, and it is effecting your attitude. What you say about him, and his methods may be true, but he is the boss. If you do not bury the hatchet, and your attitude toward your former co-worker to whom you now report, you are setting yourself up to lose the good reference that you claim to have from the employer.

Also, the thing you said " I don't know if it's of any consequence that is individual is a man, and I am a woman (a woman he finds threatening, I think as well)."

It may be true, it may not be, it is also not relevant to anything. If he feels threatened, all that means is you have been able to foster, allow to fester, or perpetuate a relationship in which you are threatening. You need to fix this issue, as it reflects more on you than it does on him. the boss should not feel threatened by you, unless you are being threatening. Whether you have contributed to the threatening persona or not, it will not benefit you in the long run, and you are the only one who can change it.

I liken this type of statement with the same typical male insensitive statement about it being that time of the month. It may be true, it may be a factor, it may not be, but it is not beneficial to anyone to base your actions on. it reeks of an air of superiority, disrespect, and dominance over the other person. It is belittling, and shows insecurity, and whom is really threatened in most cases. it also shows a lack of responsibility, and leadership skills, which is probably a consideration why you were not made the boss.

My advice, look for a new job, join the current team under the current coach, and make sure that when you leave he wishes you were staying. Make him see how wrong he was, and that he is losing the best thing he ever had. That is the best revenge, and will make him look like a guy who can not keep the franchise players happy, and on the team. it will mean nothing to the comapny if you look like you were not the team player, and the go to person with a hearty team attitude.

I have been passed over for jobs before, and it effected my atitude as well. I learned form it hopefully. I hope you do.

 

[sqlcasey]

dear aarenot,

your read on the situation is totally off - frankly i could care less about a promotion here (i am already in the highest position I could ask for in my dept, as a DBA)- nor am i interested in status or title, i just want an intelligent, reasonable manager, and i just want to be able to do my job well

although thank you for taking the time to respond - your advice might very well apply to someone else, however

can we consider this thread closed ?

 

[aarenot]

sqlcasey,
You are very welcome. Your response showed class, and a level head. good luck going forward, and thanks for taking the reply as intended. Something to make you consider a response other than one which would validate you, instead making you check yourself.

In closing,
Salute

 

[pelajhia]

got to throw my 2 cents in...kmginn, I think the paper trail idea is great, I am in process on a nice one now myself
but! I do think your suggested wording comes off pretty harsh/paranoid. In particular, in case this guy was wondering, "gee is she trying to create a paper trail? " or even thinking " I sure feel threatened by that WOMAN!"
this would surely cinch it.
Also folks can opt to not respond to emails when they would rather claim they didn't ever see/speak about something, so you might want to play a bit more under the radar.
A simple email reiterating instructions as a confirmation that the employee is going forward with the plan serves several purposes: gets the job done since confirming on complicated plans is always a great idea, probably more likely to get a response and also might begin to bridge that communication gap that seems to be soooo heartily lacking.
Who know, the boss might begin to think the employee is efficient and worth re-considering.
(just a few thoughts for folks new to dealing with bad bosses who might come across this posting, I am sure the original poster probably 'gets' this

 

[HelsByTheDock]

I'd like to add my 2 pence here having gone through similar-ish situation a few years ago.

It seems that situations like this are occurring more and more frequently and not necessarily just to women. There is a certain amount of media attention, particularly in London, to people getting paid millions in compensation for what on the surface appear to be minor issues. However, when you are the individual in this situation it can be difficult to retain the level of confidence and self-esteem to 'cope'.

Taking the legal route can often end in you paying significant costs - both financially and emotionally. Yes, you need to keep diaries; Yes, you need to keep emails; Yes, you need to involve other employees as witnesses. But, and this is a big but - consider who all this extra work has to be done by....YOU.

This means that you spend more and more time focusing on the negative aspects which can also impact your work and personal life. The person you have a grievance against won't be spending anywhere near as much time thinking about it as you - if at all - maybe they are not even aware of the impact of their actions.

By being a member on this technical forum will mean that you are an intelligent person with IT skills which are bound to be required by many other, more appreciative, companies.

My advice, from the heart:
1. Take some holiday,
2. Write a letter to the persons concerned explicitly stating exactly what you think of them and how they made you feel - then burn it, don't send it!
3. Update your CV, go contracting, go perm, set up your own company, do anything else, just put the situation behind you and move on.

Eventually you will move on, turning that move into a positive move now just speeds up the process.

Good luck!

 

[estate]

i think you have a depression
take a holiday, go to restraunt or club, read a magazine do anything else, but relax

 

[gbaughma]

Wow... talk about beating a dead horse.... (LOL) She already said that she was going to move on to bigger and better things.



Just my 2¢
"Life gets mighty precious when there's less of it to waste." -Bonnie Raitt "Nick of Time"
--Greg

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