Best SBS 2003 Backup Solution 1

[reporting]

We are having major problems with our server (for more info). Besides those issues, our backup also failed when I upgraded to SP1. So we haven't had a real backup for several days...

We use Retrospect 7.5 for SBS. I have found it to be a reliable backup solution when I have had to restore from it. However, the backup catalog becomes corrupted easily. The last time was in the spring.

I now find that what Retrospect Tech Support told me to do to fix it that time doesn't work! I have a business to run so spending hours playing around with servers isn't high on my list. And, as my servers are in my house and I am out at clients most of the time, hiring someone is impractical...

Before I became a CRM and BI consultant in the mid-90's, I was a Novell Network Admin. We used Arcada Software's Backup Exec. When I left that job and became a Netware consultant, it was my preferred backup solution. I remember it running for years w/o having any problems! So I am now considering replacing Retrospect.

Due to my previous experience, I am thinking of Veritas Backup Exec. But I don't spend a lot of time taking a look at what is available network wise... So I am asking for some advice from the forum members.

I would like to know what some of the Windows Server consultants here recommend for SBS 2003 Premium ... and why they recommend it!

Thanks very much,


John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[markdmac]

I recommend just using NTBackup. You should almost never need to go to tape anyway if you are using ShadowCopy. Using the SBS backup you get the nice integration with the control panel and restoration is simple if you do need to use it. Also, I HIGHLY recommend you keep a recent ASR backup around for DR.

I hope you find this post helpful.

Regards,

Mark

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[ShackDaddy]

I generally combine the native NTBackup (using the SBS wizard) with a monthly full "image" of the system that I take using Acronis.

Actually, for 80% of my clients, I only use the SBS backup, and I've found that I've been able to recovery from disasters fairly reliably. Because the wizard enforces System State and good Exchange backups, the most common misconfigurations of backups are avoided. Acronis is something I've recently started adding, just for the recovery speed aspect.

I only buy Veritas or another 3rd-party app if I need to back up more than one server and also want all my backups to be on one set of media.

Dave Shackelford
MCSE, CCNA, Microsoft MVP: Exchange
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Thanks very much Mark & Dave. Unfortunately, our server OS has died and I had to re-install SBS 2003.

I have discussed this with several people who know more about servers than I do. I had planned to purchase a larger server with SBS on it. However, the suggestion appears to be to get two smaller Win 2K3 servers, one to be the PDC and the 2nd to be App server and BDC ... and, as one of them said "avoid the single point of failure that SBS represents". I will then use this SBS server as a file server.

In that case, I will have 3 servers that will need to be backed up. Dave: you suggested Veritas. Do you think it's the best for this kind of situation?

Thanks again,

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

Yes, Veritas is good for that situation. Look into whether you'll need to buy an additional agent or two to cover Exchange and the additional remote servers.

Even if you are thinking of two servers, still consider SBS, since it supports additional domain controllers.

My experience has been that SBS isn't any more a single-point of failure than the two-server solution you described, as long as you have a good backup solution in place. With an additional DC (with SBS) you make the situation better, as long as you configure the clients to look to BOTH servers for DNS.

But if the people giving you advice against SBS are also going to be there to help you when things get rough, that counts for something.

Probably one of your best investments would be a good service/warranty on your hardware (including short response time), which will protect you from nearly everything but a catastrophic disk failure.

My general practice has been to build SBS servers using Dell hardware (gold support), and with three mirrors set up at the hardware level. Then I put a good backup plan in place, and for many clients add an additional network-offsite-backup solution on top of that. I rarely have "server-down" situations. Sometimes I have to replace a failed drive from a mirror set, and occasionally I have to do Exchange recovery due to a database crash of some sort, but I generally don't experience outages besides those across the 50+ SBS boxes that I directly and indirectly manage.

I've actually found that SBS recovery is a slightly more complicated situation when there is an additional DC in the mix...

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Thanks very much for the advice Dave ... much appreciated!

But if the people giving you advice against SBS are also going to be there to help you when things get rough, that counts for something.

The first one that said to watch out for SBS Dell Tech Support, who walked me through the re-install! That's who gave me the comment about SBS being a single point of failure...

Thanks again,

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[reporting]

Now that my server is back up and running and user WS's can attach to it, time to start looking at what I'm going to get for my replacement server.

You said:

Even if you are thinking of two servers, still consider SBS, since it supports additional domain controllers.

My experience has been that SBS isn't any more a single-point of failure than the two-server solution you described, as long as you have a good backup solution in place. With an additional DC (with SBS) you make the situation better, as long as you configure the clients to look to BOTH servers for DNS.

Due to all the problems here, the client WS's actually use the router for DNS & DHCP... Once I have the new server, I can set them back up on the servers.

My primary consideration: is if another similar problem occurs, which server setup will allow me to get back up and running the fastest?

Server 1: PDC, System Server & Backup Server using Win 2K3 Server
Server 2: BDC & App Server using Win 2K3 Server
Server 3: File Server using Win 2K3 Server

or

Server 1: PDC, System Server, App Server & Backup Server using Win SBS 2K3
Server 2: BDC, System Server, App Server & Backup Server using Win SBS 2K3

Thanks again,

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

The reason you couldn't add permissions for E-REPORTING\John is because your workstation was not pointed to your server for DNS.

It's MANDATORY that clients in a domain point to a domain controller for DNS, otherwise requests for login information or access to user-lists (like you need when you want to add a permission) will either be very slow to access or not accessible at all. I think quite a few problems you've had might go away if you start using the server for DNS. It would be helpful if you'd use it for DHCP as well, but that's your call.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

OK, I'll fix that...

I have other server problems right now — server apps that I need (like SQL Server 2000...) won't install — so ordering a new server is critical!

As a result, figuring out which server config will get me up and running the fastest if something similar happens down the road is my primary concern right now...

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

In config 2 above, note that you'd only have a single SBS server and an additional Standard server. You can't ever put two SBS servers in the same domain.

Also note that in the Windows 2003 world, there are no real PDC/BDC relationships. All domain controllers are more or less equal, none having a master copy. There is a hidden PDC "role" that a DC in a 2003 environment has to wear to allow some legacy operations to complete successfully, and the SBS server owns this role by default.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Earlier, you said:

My experience has been that SBS isn't any more a single-point of failure than the two-server solution you described, as long as you have a good backup solution in place. With an additional DC (with SBS) you make the situation better, as long as you configure the clients to look to BOTH servers for DNS.

And now you said:

In config 2 above, note that you'd only have a single SBS server and an additional Standard server. You can't ever put two SBS servers in the same domain.

So now I'm really confused... How would I set up two SBS machines so that, if one fails, I could get the secondary one up and running quickly in order to replace the primary one?

Thanks again,

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

1) You can't cluster SBS, so you can't keep one one standby in case one fails.

2) You can provide failover for AD and authentication with SBS by having a) your SBS server and b) another Windows 2003 Standard server acting as a domain controller. That makes two DC's. If the clients are pointed to both of them for DNS, if one goes offline, the other one can still handle authentication.

That being said, you still have your files in one basket, depending on which of the two servers you choose to put them on, and you have Exchange only on the SBS box. So this is where a good backup solution comes in. You want to be able to restore SBS in-full, and still allow users access to a server that can authenticate them, give them internet access and provide their files to them while the other server is being rebuilt. Mail would be down until you'd finished restoring the SBS box.

Doing standard SBS-wizard backups should give you enough to do a restore of your SBS server.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Now I'm starting to understand...

How about this for a strategy:

1. Purchase a new server with SBS 2003
2. Also purchase something like a Buffalo TeraStation
3. Install apps on the new server
4. Backup to tape and to the NAS device
5. On a weekend, turn off the new server and reformat our current Dell with SBS 2003 using the same domain name as the new server
6. Install apps the same way as on the new server
7. Turn off the old server

Then, if we have a major server crisis again, I can turn off the new server, restore the data from the NAS device onto the old server ... and be back up and running very quickly!

Is that a workable strategy?

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

Even if both SBS servers have the same domain name, they are not the same domain. Your clients would have to be removed and rejoined to the domain if you did what you described. Then you'd have the same profile problems you've been struggling with.

Here's the closest solution I can think of to what you are proposing:

Keep a server with the same hardware on hand to use as a target for an image-based restore like you might make using Acronis. If you have Acronis making incremental updates to an initial snapshot and storing it on the NAS, you should be able to fully recover your NEW server if there's a "down" scenario without even needing to worry about having another server at all. That's more the scenario that I work in.

Or try restoring a full/ASR backup from the new server over your old server and see if there are any significant problems due to the differences in hardware. If there aren't, then you can probably use it as a target for recovery in the future. You'd want to make sure that the same drive letters would be available and so forth...but then again you may blue-screen the first time you fire it up. You'd have to try it to know.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Even if both SBS servers have the same domain name, they are not the same domain. Your clients would have to be removed and rejoined to the domain if you did what you described. Then you'd have the same profile problems you've been struggling with.

Once everything was setup, I would take a couple of days, develop a procedure that works, test it and document it...

Keep a server with the same hardware on hand to use as a target for an image-based restore like you might make using Acronis. If you have Acronis making incremental updates to an initial snapshot and storing it on the NAS, you should be able to fully recover your NEW server if there's a "down" scenario without even needing to worry about having another server at all. That's more the scenario that I work in.

I don't know Acronis. From their web site, it appears as if the Server version can image both servers and WS's. If that is so, then, after reformatting with Win 2K3, I could use my current Dell SBS server as the NAS...

Another Acronis question: how compressed are the image backups?

Thanks much,

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca

 

[ShackDaddy]

I don't recall how compressed they are, but they are...there's an initial snapshot and then an incremental per whatever you schedule, so over time it grows, of course. In any case, 50% compression is a common ratio.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[reporting]

Thanks again for all your help with the problems we've been having!

John Marrett
Crystal Reports Trainer & Consultant

http://www.e-reporting.ca