Best Development Tools 3

[Davenz]

Hi

Quick Question: I am going to be getting into some web development soon and am not sure where to start in terms of selecting a design tool/language.

I've got excellend experience in .NET (Windows applications), SQL etc as well as a little bit of ASP.NET, but now have a requirement to do some more web site development.

Any tips on tools/languages etc?

I've looked at Dreamweaver and it looks good - any comments?

Thanks

Dave

 

[trollacious]

Learn HTML so you don't have to rely on a WYSIWYG program to try to interpret what you draw on the screen. I can't tell you how many hundreds of pages I've fixed because someone thought just because they could draw the page in a program like Dreamweaver, they could make good web pages. Without knowing how HTML works, along with style sheets, you won't have a professional looking site. Dreamweaver can get you started, but you'll still need to finish off the page and touch it up in the code view area to make it look its best for everyone.

As for languages, the only cross-browser compatible client-side scripting language is Javascript. The choice in server-side languages is limited by what your web hosting service provides. PHP and classic ASP are the most popular, I believe, and the ASP platform by default allows JScript or VBScript programming.

Lee

 

[jshurst]

Do you have certain criteria that you have to follow? If not then I suggest that you download Visual Web Developer. It's free and uses the .NEt 2.0 framework. Then download "Atlas" and you can make some really impressive sites.

I like the Dreamweaver interface a little better, but VWD is free and the .NET framework is unparalled (although it does cost more to host). Also the asp.net forum here is fantastic.

Good luck.

 

[TamedTech]

I can highly promote any product by macromedia, Dreamweaver is excelent, and for a Server Side lanuage i can suggest ColdFusion, this is an argument there have been many a thread started over.

Look around at tutorials for all the programming languages and find the one which suites your requirements.

If you're looking to learn this as a new skills set, then ColdFusion makes perfect sence, it is very easy to adopt an OO approach to development, and yet allows the simplicity of a <tag>based</tag> programming language. along with a whole host of othe benefits in the latest version 7 release, such as Flash Forms, easy creations of PDF and FlashPaper documents, and Flash based charts for simple reporting.

Take a look at the demo set on macromedia.com, you cant deny the simplicity of what would otherwise be very complicated tasks.

http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/demos/

But like the other guys have said, adopting a language is important, please dont get stuck in a rut of using WYSISYG editors, they are baaad news, they'll just teach you bad coding habbits.

Look into the W3C Standards, they will teach you how to code properly with VALID markup.

Ok well, It's far to late on a sunday evening to carry on here, i need to get back to my beer, but make sure you check this out thoroughly beofre choosing a path, and make sure you choose one which is most comformtable to you.

But i cant even begin to reccomend ColdFusion enough, ASP.Net can probably rival it on abilities, but you're looking at alot more coding, and that language is far more complex... i also believe you have to compile it everytime you want to preview it, but i may be wrong on that.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[Davenz]

Hi to all that have replied.

Thanks very much for your comments, I certainly do have coding experience and a basic understanding of HTML/ASP - so no problem there.

I have downloaded an evaluation of the latest version fo Dreamweaver and it looks great - especially being able to have a split screen with code/designer so I can see what is going on with code as well. I think this is the product I will proceed with.

Thanks again

Dave

 

[mp9]

A freebie I have used on occasion:

http://www.geocities.com/mpp_v1/features.html

Has good integrated HTML and CSS reference, and costs no $/£/€...

 

[Foamcow]

If you want WYSIWYG then it's got to be Dreamweaver as it's very open ended and you can use it to tie in with whatever server side technologies you have available.

But there's really no substitute for hand coding and few good reference books/sites/tutorials. You will, at the end of the day, get so much more out of it and have a far better understanding of the "hows and whys"

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Foamcow Heavy Industries - Web site design in Cheltenham and Gloucester
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[TamedTech]

I couln't agree with FoamCow more, Hand coding is definatly the way to go, especialy as all the WYSIWYG editors seem to interperate code strangly, as with different browsers, and you can get mixed bag of results.

Once you've leaned coding, it'll all go a but 'Matrix' on you and reading source will become clearer to understand than looking at design view.

I work in code alone now, but still find dreamweaver an excelent tool, is has all sorts of 'extensions' you can download to help you develope in your chosed language, with code snippets and suchlike.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[Sleidia]

The tools I highly recommend :

- Scripting tool :
PSPAD (

http://www.pspad.com

, freeware ).
I've tested many and this one is simply the best in my opinion.

- Programming language ( server-side ) :
PHP/mysql because it's free and available on all hosts
( I don't get why someone proposed coldfusion!? )

- Database management ( mySQL )
The web based Phpmyadmin (

http://www.phpmyadmin.net

) is slow compared to windows based applications, but at least, it's free.

- Bitmap/vector design :
Photoshop and Illustrator.
I've tested plenty of open source software and I was never fully happy with them in term of export/import capabilities.
I would advise you to try Inkscape though (

http://www.inkscape.org

) for vector graphics.

- Flash animations :
SWISH is a very good tool that lets you create great animations with lots of special effects in minutes. It's only if you want to avoid complicated ActionScript (

http://www.swishzone.com

).

 

[Stretchwickster]

I would also recommend PHP/MySQL as an inexpensive server-side language. I've just bought NuSphere PhpED (

http://www.nusphere.com/products/phped.htm)

which is a PHP IDE and it seems pretty good.

Coldfusion is probably easier/quicker to learn, but financial

For general scripting, I've purchased WeBuilder (

http://www.blumentals.net/webuilder/)

which has good support for (X)HTML and CSS particularly.

Clive

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer." (Paul Ehrlich)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To get the best answers from this forum see: faq102-5096

 

[Stretchwickster]

Sorry! 3rd paragraph should read:
Coldfusion is probably easier/quicker to learn, but has a greater financial overhead - i.e. purchase price, web hosting costs.

Clive

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer." (Paul Ehrlich)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To get the best answers from this forum see: faq102-5096

 

[werD420]

I think the two key things i looked at when i started was price and power. unfortunately there wasnt much when i started that fit either of those (besides notepad). but now there are a ridiculous amount of great tools out for doing this but some have better features and costly and slightly dated proprietary technologies(dreamweaver especially although it does have very respectable asp support and some great auto complete)

I personally use two or three ides (integrated development environments) for updating certain pages including dreamweaver and frontpage but i develop in very few. These are

-Visual Web Developer: Free and super support for developing on the oh so free .net framework

-Microsoft Expression Web Designer(BETA) - Free and really intuitive. Has autocomplete support for html,css,javascript,xml and more) with a powerful and concise wysiwyg for those who like that sort of thing. I highly recommend checking this out

-Visual Studio 2005$$) for all my server side and windows development needs
-Notepad



MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[Wullie]

( I don't get why someone proposed coldfusion!? )

Have you ever used Coldfusion? Seriously, I know many PHP users that are simply amazed when they see how easily Coldfusion can accomplish a lot of tasks. Take a look at what it can do, you might surprise yourself. It's not like Coldfusion is an unknown language, it powers many Fortune 500 companies, heck the Tek-Tips site runs on CF.

Coldfusion is probably easier/quicker to learn, but has a greater financial overhead - i.e. purchase price, web hosting costs.

There is no purchase price unless you are looking at a dedicated server. Developers can use a free version and any site using a full dedicated server surely should be able to afford the cost of the standard version of CF. As for the hosting costs, they used to be a lot higher than standard ASP/PHP hosting but that is no longer the case.

Any programmer knows that the design/developement section is the most costly in most projects, so if you can cut that down significantly, that reduces the cost of the whole project.

Hope this helps

Wullie

YetiHost - Quality Coldfusion 7/Windows Hosting

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell

 

[ecobb]

While it may be a little outdated...

http://www.cffaq.com/faq.cfm?f=1#q5

http://www.cffaq.com/faq.cfm?f=1#q8

My favorite 2 quotes:

1) ColdFusion is the leading commercial (as in paid for) application server, and is second only to ASP in published pages. ColdFusion is used by over 75% of the Fortune 100.

2) One recent estimate found that to add CF Professional functionality to ASP involved a raw cost of goods that topped $30,000.

Even if you're looking at a dedicated server, a free version (BlueDragon) has been around since about 2001-2002. The whole "ColdFusion is much more expensive" argument is a myth that hasn't been true for some time.

Hope This Helps!

ECAR
ECAR Technologies

http://www.ecartech.com

"My work is a game, a very serious game." - M.C. Escher

 

[Stretchwickster]

I stand corrected.

Clive

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer." (Paul Ehrlich)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To get the best answers from this forum see: faq102-5096

 

[damber]

ECAR,

How old are those quotes that come from the ColdFusion FAQ site ??

Has anyone heard the phrase "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" ? Stats like that are easy to achieve.. almost everything out there has some 'claim to fame' that they tout on their website to show how great it is.

As for the 'Leading Commercial Application Server'... mmmm.. I think if you look at most serious application servers / Frameworks (JBoss,Tomcat,Websphere,BEA WebLogic,.NET, etc), this isn't amongst them. I can tell you from experience that this would never be considered by a serious enterprise, beyond some local office doing an unofficial local project.

And this statement: "ColdFusion is used by over 75% of the Fortune 100." is highly misleading.. Fortune 100's are large enterprises usually founded over time through plenty of acquisitions - they tend to have used almost every technology out there at some point, and in some place within their organisation.... if you are looking to get a job in a large enterprise, you are MUCH better equipped with JSP (Java) or ASP.NET (C#/VB.NET) (even PHP) knowledge and experience. Just check out any jobsite.

I wont even start to comment on the second statement.. TCO is a deceptive fellow for the uninitiated - besides... Lies, Damn Lies and St......... ;-)

The whole "ColdFusion is much more expensive" argument is a myth that hasn't been true for some time.

You're right on that one for the hosting.. it usually comes alongside ASP classic on most hosting sites, with no extra cost - not sure why it is perceived as more expensive, as it isn't from what I have seen.

Don't let this discourage anyone from trying CF - as people say, it is quite useful and effective in many scenarios.. but just be aware of the downsides of that choice..

Anyway... back on point..

As the OP is conversant with .NET already - why not continue with this using ASP.NET ? Visual Web Developer Express is free and very competent. SQL Server Express is free, and also pretty useful. All have upgrade paths as things grow. It is a common and sought after skillset, and if you use C# for coding you'll find the transition to Java at a later date (if you choose to) much easier.

The hosting isn't particularly different from most other windows hosting, so that shouldn't be an issue. If you want you can also use ASP.NET / C# cross platform using the mono framework which has it's own ASP.NET Apache webserver addon as well as an IDE.

PHP is also not a *bad* choice in the wider context, and has quite a few benefits, such as cross platform, available on very cheap hosting plans.. but as this would be a completely new language to learn it seems slightly off of the OP's needs. But if you want to take up a new language then go for it.

A Final Thought.. as is being stated by almost everyone here... DON'T USE WYSIWYG editors... they will stifle your learning and understanding and result in horrible, horrible code.

A smile is worth a thousand kind words. So smile, it's easy!