BCM 400 vent 4

[DanWells]

We've had a Nortel BCM 400 for over two years. When we originally purchased it we did so to make use of existing handsets and to gain unified messaging. Everything worked as advertised until we upgraded our email system from Novell GroupWise 6.5 to 7.0. While a PC had the Groupwise 6.5 client loaded with the CallPilot client installed could have the email client upgraded and usually work, we could never get the Callpilot piece to install into the GroupWise 7.0 client. We kept all our users back at the GroupWise 6.5 client. We kept inquiring about a fix for this and back in April of this year we were told that a fix was available if we upgraded the BCM from 3.6 to 4.0.
We did this and the nightmare started. Voice mail would crash several time a day. After a 10 days of the service provider and Nortel working on the problem with no resolution, we had the service provider (Blackbox) back-rev to 3.6. We have since had intermittent problems with voice mail (though the last time I insisted that they rebuild the voice mail from the ground up rather than using a backup and it has been 4 weeks without a problem, knock on wood).
Nortel told Blackbox that a patch would be ready in three weeks. It has been more than three months and no patch and the indications are from Blackbox that no fix is forthcoming.
We are on the cusp of needing more capacity than the BCM 400 can supply. We will not choose Nortel again and very likely not use Blackbox again either.

I do have one question, is there a standalone client for fax and voice mail for the unified messaging portion of the BCM 400?

 

[senk1s]

outlook, internet explorer ....

 

[BringbackVNC]

Anybody ever consider that your Hard drive is possibly corrupted? If it was upgraded to 4.0 then re-imaged back down to 3.6 your hard drive might be angry.

 

[lugerlover]

As a ex black box employee i must say this.I was one of the last norstar/bcm techs to go in a 3 state area.I was the only tech III trained and worked exclusively on the norstar/bcm in the ny/ct service area ,all who were left as of 11/2006 are old pbx guys who are pretty much clueless and could barely spell IP much less work on it.They go to site and rely on a Tac engineer to fix the problem.I believe the company has about 3 or 4 engineers who actually know what they are doing the rest are trained monkeys that managment had take a couple CBT's and became engineers.Managment believes that anyone can work on it as long as there is a tac engineer to talk them thru.As a customer you should be able to tell if the tech is knowledgable on product and if not throw there ass out and demand a trained tech.Most of the guys i worked with couldnt change the IP address on there laptop if there lives depended on it.Senior techs 25 yrs with company ..Some couldnt log onto intranet for email...couldnt graasp...I swear to god...

Oops i ranted too...sorry
Not bitter just pissed i know so much and was tossed aside like a red headed step child

 

[MagnaRGP]

Dan:

Don't blame Nortel solely based on BlackBox.

If I were you, I would threaten BlackBox with loss of contract if they don't get a Nortel guy out to site at their cost. Get the Nortel guy to install a clean image 4.0 (latest rev is .221 I believe) and rebuild your VM from scratch. If Blackbox won't do that, I'm sure a competitor would be willing to do it for a multi-year service contract. Hell, maybe acewarlock or lugerlover would take that up as a contract gig....

This should only take a few hours (including applying the latest patches. Your system will be humming along nicely then.

 

[tech2233]

If you are on the cusp of needing more capacity then the BCM can provide then why don't you consider replacing the BCM now. Cut your losses and buy a different system.

I am a certified BCM and Avaya technician. I have installed probably over 200 BCM's in the last 7 years, and probably more Avaya IP Office systems. The Avaya system is stable and very expandable (to approx. 360 handsets). Lots of features. I also find Avaya to be a lot more stable then the BCM system. Don't get me wrong, there is the occassional bug, but for the most part, a really great product.

 

[DigitelD]

I am not arguing that the Avaya system is not a good system. I do think that having a GOOD tech come in and tackle the issues is the best option. Alot of issues with the BCM can be eliminated if installed and setup correctly. The BCM does have its issues at times and I do get annoyed sometimes but at the end of the day I am still in Nortel's corner.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)

 

[tech2233]

A lot of the issues with the BCM product relate to the hardware design. So many moving parts inside one box leaving it very vulnerable. The problem is not with the OS, the problem is with the architecture, and no amount of software fixing will fix that problem. Moving parts, things like hard drives, and power supplies, have an operating life of 5 years. Stick too many of those items inside one box and the failure rate gets compounded.

Products like Avaya IP Office, or ShoreTel eliminate that problem.

 

[lugerlover]

The real issue here is a customer accepted sub par service from his/her vendor and here lies the problem.If you do not hold them accountable then you will always have this type of problem.Escalate thru both the supplier and vendor.Refuse to let incompetent techs on site who will only sit there like a trained monkey waiting for a engineer to tell them what keys they have to hit on a keyboard.

Easy way to tell is they have a look on face like a scared rabbit and are on phone constantly whining.

 

[NARSBARS]

I have 30 BCMs and the only thing that has killed any of them is bad BFTs and lightning. You need to take responsibility for the design and environment.
When installing a BCM, doubleor even quadruple the installed memory which will cause less HD thrashing. Buy the memory yourself and have your vendor agree ahead of time to backup your installation. They want the business, they will agree if you buy premium memory and leave the ols stuff in a static bag hanging off the switch. Install a premium surge strip and plug the equivalent of an APC Smart UPS, with pseudo sine wave output into the surge strip. Make sure that you have the BCM where it can maintain some type of temperature control. I used to have to mount muffin fans on crosswire and hang them under TIE systems. The BCM is a PC. Keep it cool, give it lots of memory, open the case every year or two while carrying a can of compressed air. Small, no moving part HDs are being released. If Nortel is smart, they will incorporate those.

NARSBARS

 

[tech2233]

If Nortel is smart they will re-engineer the system entirely. All in one boxes with that many moving parts can not provide the "5 nines" reliability required of a phone system. Hard drives fail, and power supplies and fans do flake out. All of that in one box, with 4 installed expansion cards is an accident waiting to happen.

Everyone reading this who has experience with the BCM knows exactly what I am takling about.

You can go on and on about experienced techs (blah blah blah) it still does not give the BCM 99.999% uptime. No experience in the world will keep that fan running more then it should.

 

[NARSBARS]

There are servers with years of up time. Ask the dreaded data techs. If Nortel has a problem, it is not building the BCM with enough power as a PC. It is a PC and must be configured and supported as a PC. Power, Heat, Dirt, Vibration, and resources in the form of memory, both RAM and processor expansion cards.
All my new BCM installations go in overbuilt with resources, surge protection, media cards, and UPS. My BCMs are now "dust collectors" in the same way the MICS was. They sit and run.
Install a patch, reboot and they sit and run. All of my BCMs have surge and UPS. I also have the best vendor support in New England, a company in Maine, but top quality support and installation are a huge piece of having no problems.


NARSBARS

 

[acewarlock]

60 BCM's 1000, 200 and 400 all on 3.6. one hard drive failed, one had a raid fail and about 10 BCM 1000's had the Motherboard with bad caps and about 25 400's had the bad BFT and 0ne had the bad power connecters on the power supply. so much for moving parts. all systems are on a UPS. this has been over a 4 year period. I think thats a good record for any system.

 

[tech2233]

Let's see. That 1 + 1 + 10 + 25 + 1 = 38 out of 60. That's a 60% failure rate. Pretty good.

Why would you accept that sort of failure rate as acceptable. Perhaps for a piece of junk PC it might be acceptable, not for a phone system that should operate with a 99.999% uptime.

My point is that the telephony function of a phone system should not have any moving parts. Voice storage and admin can be done through a PC, not the telephony function itself. As long as Nortel makes their phone system this way is as long as they will continue to have hardware problems.

 

[acewarlock]

I only count 3 as the other 35 were a world wide CAP Problem not a Nortel caused problem. these systems have been up 100% of the time other than those I mentioned since being repaired.

Motherboards and BFT no moving parts except fans.
Harddrive has moving parts
RAID doesn't have moving parts
Power supply connectors no moving parts

Option 11-81 have Fans and Harddrives, what systems don't have at least 1 moving part?

 

[tech2233]

Avaya IP Office. No moving parts.

That was my initial point.

And besides, who cares if there was a world wide recall on those capacitors. It makes Nortel look bad. Chrysler looks bad when they have to do a recall on their brakes despite the fact that they did not make them. So did Nokia recently with their batteirs, and Mattel with the lead paint. Every manufacturer has a responsibility to ensure quality in their parts, Nortel included. Those capacitors have caused me, and our firm, many hours of extra labour and client frustration, and continue to do so (as recently as yesterday). I'm not certain, but I would say that of the 100 systems we installed with those bad capacitors we have had to replace every single one of those. It's made the BCM, and in turn, me, look bad.

Every person reading this knows what I am talking about, and I have talked with enough technicians to know that there is general consensus on these issues.

 

[gwebster]

FWIW - Option 11C has no fans (convection cooled) and uses Flash memory for a "hard drive".

 

[MagnaRGP]

Option 81 -- Massive fans at the bottom of the column and a power supply on each shelf. Proprietary hardware -- mine never wnet down in 3+ years of operation. Why? Clean room, protected power, restricted access.

How many MICS and BCM's do you see stuck in closets and electrical rooms? MICS can take it. Why? Proprietary hardware and near bulletproof design. BCM can't take that treatment. Why? It's a PC with telephony functionality built in on partial COT hardware. Which parts failed? The COT parts. Also IBM and Dell were burned by that capacitor recall.

The Point? I'm not sure...just ranting I guess. Despite it's issues with the quality of the COT parts used, there STILL is not a system by any manufacturer at that price point that has the all up capabilities of the BCM. Just you wait until you have to service an IP Office that has been stuck in the electrical closet that has two doors that lead either to the outside of the loading dock or the back corner of the warehouse and see how well it fares. NARSBARS said it best.

 

[tech2233]

Why are we applauding Nortel for manufacturing inferior product and then making excuses as to why the products merits are justified.

The BCM is a phone system. The customer expects, and deserves 100% uptime. No re-boots, continuous patches or hardware failures. Don’t blame someone else for Nortel's woes.

Nortel did at one time make an extremely reliable box – look at the 8X24, MICS, and Option 11C. I would gladly sacrifice a feature or two for the reliability and stability of the Norstar.

From Nortel's perspective, those days were a long time ago. They just don't make their hardware like they used to.

I know - I live it every day. And then have to explain to these customers why the systems are so unstable. Bad trays are a big part of that.

I have a couple of choices. I can tell customers (as suggested above) - use a really big UPS, put the system in a cooled environment, make sure the room has no dust, double the RAM, and on and on, OR, find a phone system that works and is made better.

There is a general tech consensus that the BCM system sucks. Many call it the laughing stock of phone systems.

There is a Nortel document 102880-021406 titled: Nortel BCM system and component reliability indicators. It lists all of the BCM hardware and the % failure rate / year. Did you know that Nortel's own stated failure rate of the BCM redundant system is 3% / year. Check it out.

THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ! A joke !!

 

[acewarlock]

tech2233 if you think it's so bad, why do you sell it.

"There is a general tech consensus that the BCM system sucks. Many call it the laughing stock of phone systems."

I would like to know where and when you got this "tech consensus" as I have never seen it and I like the BCM as I have found it to be a stable system when installed and programmed properly.