BATTLE WITH TELCO OVER DISCONNECT SUPER. 4

[trabra]

HELP OUT THERE!

I have an ongoing issue with SBC in Texas concerning loop start lines on a MICS 4.1 with Flash2. This all started with a branch office complaining that lines were locking up in and not releasing (Showing busy on telephones). Anytime a call routes to Flash and the caller hangs up, the line will not release and disconnect. If you place a caller on hold and they hang up, the system will not release the line. I called in a trouble with the LEC and had my vendor out to check the telephone system. We verified that Disconnect Supervision is on for all lines and even swapped LS/DS cards to make sure that we had covered our bases. I found out yesterday through my account team technical person that the 8 of my 10 lines were delivered to the site via Fiber/SLC96 and 2 were on straight copper pairs so I sent the vendor out, he connected the 2 copper lines to Norstar and the problem doesn't occur on those 2 lines. I can't seem to get anyone at the phone company to understand what I'm even talking about. I emailed an nice Tech Bulletin from

http://www.mikesandman.com

on CPC (Calling Party Control) that spells out the issue and the problems you have when the telco doesn't provide CPC or "Open Loop Disconnect".

My quesiton: Does anyone know how to get to the right person within a LEC that understands this and how to correct the problem? Or maybe I'm using the incorrect terminology for the LEC??

I forgot to mention that this morning we had a joint dispatch with the SBC DLC (Digital Loop Carrier) tech and my vendor. We simulated the problem, the SBC hooked up a butt set on the RJ21X and monitered the line and finally concluded that he didn't have a clue and would take this to his manager. My concern is that he closed the ticket and forgot about it. If they do not repair the problem today, I have asked for the fiber lines to be put on copper like the ones that work properly.

I would appreciate any input concerning this issue!

 

[luv2ski]

maybe just a timing issue ask how many milliseconds for disc supervision then try reseting in software i think its set at 600 as default...last thing/may should have been first thing ...shit can sbc find new local carrier

Pat Guido
NEXTIRAONE
Pat.guido@nextiraone.com

Formerly Nextira, formerly Williams Communications, formerly Wiltel, formerly Nortel networks, formerly Northern Telecom, formerly, Nynex meridian systems formerly Northern Telecom.

 

[curlycord]

Here in Toronto Canada we used to call it Supervised Disconnect and now learning they are starting to call it C.O.D. (Cut Off on Disconnect). We have Centrex and also a LOCAL LINK package which has similiar options as Centrex but they said it would cost us over 100 dollars per line to have COD put in place....I hit the roof on that and told them sumthin.

I never seem to get a TELCO Rep. that knows wth I'm talking about so I go to repair 611 instead and if they dont know I request a line tester and have them conference me with a sales rep to explain.

460 is the default...it's under Maintenance,Hardware.

 

[trabra]

Thanks Luv2ski and curlycord:

We actually changed the DS parameter and try different settings with no change. I thank you for the responses!

 

[jerryreeve]

If you take a but set in monitor mode clip on the CO lines and then have someone make a call in, have person who answers call put call on hold and then have originator drop the call. you can hear the disconnect supervision on the butt set. at that point in time the indicator on the norstar should go off. If you hear the disconnect and the norstar dosen't drop the line try changing the disconnect supervision to a lower number, if you don not hear the clicks that are disconnect supervision then the telco has a problem. Listen to this on the two lines that are working right first so you know what it sounds like then you can recognise it easier on the suspect lines.

JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com

 

[jerryreeve]

alternatively sandman's cpc tester

http://www.sandman.com/pdf/page92.pdf

bottom of page may be worth it to you.

JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com

 

[PERRYPJ]

IF THESE LINES ARE COMING OFF A T1 OR A SLC THERE IS NO DISCONNECT SUPY, WITH T1 AND SLC THE ONLY TIME YOU GET SUPY IS WITH GRD START

OLD ROLMEN WORKING ON NORTELS

 

[Arr]

If the LEC is delivering the lines via fiber, then MUXing them out so your Norstar sees copper, then the MUX unit must provide DS signalling to you the customer if the copper output is "loop start". A Norstar can't use ground start lines without an external adapter. If the LEC can't do this, then follow Curly's suggestion and SCThem.
It is very possible that if DS signalling is there, your value parameter in the KSU may be too high.. though I see you state that it has been varied and tested. Setting it too low won't hurt it just then is sensitive to a shorter wink.
Good luck.

PhM

 

[trabra]

Thanks to all for your input! Late yesterday I received a call from the DLC manager at SBC. He stated that 2 techs had spent the better part of the day troubleshooting the problem and couldn't figure out what had changed. This is the first time that SBC has admitted that there is a problem on the lines which is a major leap forward! They were looking at records where different components had been recently swapped out of the SLC96 and he feels that the maintenance caused this to happen, they just don't know how at this time. I do have a commitment from SBC that if they don't find the problem today, they will throw the other lines to copper and get them off the pair gain equipment.

Jerryreeve: Good information and very helpful!

PERRYPJ: just as a point of clarification, the lines are coming off the SLC96 as POTS and the LEC is proving 1FB Business line service to us. Just riding from the CO to customer premise via SLC96. Thanks for the response!

Arr: You described the exact senario! LEC not providing Disconnect off the SLC! Thanks!

 

[aragon]

Just an FYI for Bell Canada customers.
Bell has done a policy reversal regarding disconnect supervision.
All lines are now equipped with disconnect supervision retroactively. Much testing and verification has been performed to ensure this.
The DMS will provide a 800 ms open switch interval upon caller disconnect on loop start trunks.

 

[curlycord]

aragon... I just spent 2 hours straight on the phone last week with all types of Bell Canada people as I described above, where did you get your information from? is it in writing anywhere? would love to show BC this...I'm still very pissed about the DS problem with them.
Used to be you call 611 and ask for a line tester and say 'got not DS' ...no problem I will put on for ya'
Thanks!
No it's BC and DS = BS!

Cheers

 

[aragon]

Curlycord the info comes in the wake of Bell Canada losing revenue over disconnect supervision issues. I won't go into much detail other than to say that my source is reliable. The default C.O. treatment is an OSI of 800 ms on a caller disconnect for loop start trunks.
611 no longer exists unfortunately all repair orders must go through 310-BELL.
You can beg for a tester and sometimes succeed.
When it comes to dealing with the Bell business office, I feel your pain. Since CPEG was killed Bell must take all kinds of support calls from end users.
We must also feel their pain. I am not envious of their support staff.

 

[curlycord]

Where are you located?
We still have 611 in Ontario.
Cheers

 

[aragon]

Curlycord I'm in Mississauga,
611 is alive and well
I had been told it was dead and hadn't bothered to verify since the death of CPEG my customers have been dealing with their own Bell Canada problems