AT&T IP Flex Service on Magix 4

[bryandj23]

Hi All.

We've had AT&T reps coming to us the past few weeks, proposing we move to their IP Flex service. The cost savings looks good on paper, but I'm curious as to how this is all going to work out.

The AT&T tech I've spoken with says that our Incoming bonded T1 at the main location, and standard T1 at our satellite office will connect to a Cisco 2800 series router, which will then connect to the 100DCD card. The translation of IP to "PRI" will take place on the router, and the merlin magix should work just fine.

Given the fact that our trunks are all currently analog POTS lines, I'm assuming there's going to be quite a bit of programming to be done at both sites on the merlins.

Has anyone ever heard/seen/worked with this type of setup, and could you maybe shed a little flicker of light as to what I'm looking forward to in regards to programming?

Thanks in advance.

Bryan

 

[dagwoodsystems]

Yes I have. And at the risk of having my post (and possibly my account) nuked, the short answer is DO NOT use AT&T's flex offering. Provisioning flex service with this carrier lies somewhere between horribly problematic and non-existant. I do not hold any lasting animosity toward AT&T as they fed my family for a long time. I'll just finish the post by saying that insiders are quietly pushing to quash further sales of this service.

Tim Alberstein

http://www.dagwoodsystems.com

 

[CarGoSki]

Sounds like they are using a Cisco IAD. Connect a T1 to the IAD and connect one jack to PBX and one other to the LAN. Combine voice and data on one t1.

Well if they use the right patch on the IAD then it should would. Setup as normal PRI 5ESS. If you have problems syncing the DChannel it is the IADS fault.

 

[bryandj23]

So, (and pardon me needing an explanation; I just want to understand how this all works) basically we'll have our "call paths" coming into the Cisco, which in turn places these calls into a B-Channel on a PRI to the merlin?

I guess what I'm trying to understand is if a PRI only has 23 usable channels, how can more than 23 "call paths" be delivered? Maybe I should be reading some Cisco docs?

 

[CarGoSki]

Who says that you can have more than 23 calls?

 

[bryandj23]

CarGoski..

No one; on the same token, no one says that I won't, either.

Actually, we've pretty much settled on doing 16-18 call paths if we do decide to go with this solution. We were told to initially order 26, so that we get 2 TDM cards in the Cisco for future growth; then back the quantity of paths down to a more realistic value.

Would programming be relatively simple to switch our trunks from a 412TDL and 800GS to PRI?

 

[mforrence]

As far as the Magix is concerned, it is a standard TDM PRI supporting up to 23 voice channels. The issue that I've run into is the protocol the carrier provides is almost always NI2 - which Magix doesn't like.

We installed this recently - during the "sales" process, we were told that "sure, we support 5E/ATT Custom protocol" but then the installation folks at cutover said "well, we have that setting in the router, but we've never used it and can't guarantee that it will work with the rest of our network". Fortunately, it did work. Could have been ugly if it hadn't...
Mike

 

[bryandj23]

Thanks for your input, mforrence.

So, we need to make sure they set it for 5ESS/ATT Custom. Got it.

Luckily, these same two Sales and Tech "team" have recently sold one of our clients this exact solution. We plan on contacting them to see how/if/when it's working for them.

I appreciate all of the insight. If anyone has more, keep it coming!

 

[CarGoSki]

The IAD is simply set to Custom. Cisco has pretty much worked out the kinks. Used to be a problem a few years ago. If it doesn't sync with the Merlin then the problem is like wrong firmware/software load or provisioning in the IAD.


The whole idea of using IAD is the ability to dynamically allocate channels between data and voice as voice needs adjust throughout the day. You take one T and provision Merlin for 23 B. If you have one current call then the rest are allocated to data etc...

If the channels are static for voice and data then well...csu/dsu did that work just fine before IAD showed up.

 

[bryandj23]

Gotcha...that makes a whole lot more sense to me.

Almost Tried and True (er...AT&T) is proposing a bonded T1 (3Mb) for voice/data at our main location, and just a normal T1 for voice/data at our satellite office.

I'm going to take a look at PRI programming; so I have my ducks in a row.

Thanks again!

 

[SYQUEST]

Actually AT&T = Arrogant Thugs & Thieves!

If you have more than 23BCH, you would need 2 DS1s to the IAD on both sides, unless it is a redundant setup on the facility side and do the dynamic thing between 2 DS1s.

....JIM....

 

[bryandj23]

Currently our 100DCD cards on both systems are used strictly for point to point networking for Merlin, and for point-to-point data between the two offices.

I like your definition of AT&T better, Jim. LOL

 

[Andrewiski]

When you bring up the PRI a gutcha that had me puzzled for a while was that after switching from POTS to PRI's the Lines where busyed out in the INA. I could call out but the phone was busy when the calls came in. Messed with the PRI setting forever before checking the mantince and seeing the lines were set to busy. Never had them automaticly busy out with the Pots so never thought to check. Just hoping to save you that time I will never get back. I can confirm the 5ESS works as I had to have Nuvox change the signaling to 5ESS before it would work as well. I am currently using Nuvox for my PRI but am switching to AT&T flex next month.

Andy

 

[merlinman]

I have looked around and found that the IP FLEX service is a VOIP solution.

That will do the VOICE Side just fine, but as I have just found out on a different cut, you can forget about having any REMOTE MAINTENANCE & PROGRAMMING done though WINSPM.

The connection to the modem will simply no longer work on a dial up basis. Therefore, our client is ordering a REAL COPPER line for that purpose.

This is just an FYI for you guys to think about.

http://home.comcast.net/~merlinman

 

[bryandj23]

Merlinman...

I appreciate that tip. I had read that "gotcha" somewhere else, and so it was in our plan to make sure we have POTS lines in place for remote admin. As long as we're talking analog, I also have a few devices that require dial-up connections to data centers for various updates. (They're postage machines). Although they do have USB ports on them, at this time they're not near computers, so that's another thing to investigate as well.

We've been doing all that we can to sort of sweep these sales people off into a corner for the time being. We have a meeting with them this morning (where they want us to sign contracts), but we honestly feel they have not taken the time to take into consideration HOW our business operates, WHAT (all) equipment we have connected to our communications system, and what changes are going to be necessary that may affect our business operations. These clowns have the attitude that "It will work. Sign here, please". There must be a hell of a commission on this product, and it seems to me this "team" is trying to pack away some savings for Christmas presents. LOL.

I may just post back what comes of today's meeting. Should be interesting.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and suggestions. I've said it before; this forum (and its members) rock!

 

[SYQUEST]

Merlinman,

Have you tried Faxing on the IP Flex service?

This doesn't surprise me, one more thing this crappy VOIP won't due, and it just shows how "flexible" analogue POTS is!!

....JIM....

 

[msi12]

bryandj23

What Merlinman saying about WinSPM having modem connection problem to the system is correct.
I myself had problem connecting using the modem. When I had a call to go on-site, I found a unused copper analog trunk and set that up for my RAS. It saved me alot of trips.

One time I was working on a problem with the Flex T1, and I mentioned to ATT Data guy about modem connection problem thru 1 of the DID number. He said something about voip signal works differently with modem when connecting. I gave him the DID number I was using for RAS and he went into the Cisco 28xx did some programming and fixed it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SYQUEST]

msi12,

Any idea what options were changed or enabled in the Cisco IAD? That could be very useful to know...

....JIM....

 

[CarGoSki]

probably changed DID delivery for the line to 64k no compression.

 

[Pepperz]

Had a customer with a similar setup. It was a new product and they couldn't support it very well on the Telco side. It worked, sometimes, and during the heavy internet times, usually middle of the afternooon, things stopped.
.... great pricing though.