Asked to sign non-compete, and training contract.

[aarenot]

My employer has asked me to sign a non-compete, and a training reimbursement document. He asked 6 months ago, and I left it sitting on my desk, and he never followed up.
We had at my interview, and offer, a verbal agreement, like this. When I started I was part time, and have moved to full time since. I am not guaranteed any certain number of hours per week.
1) I have current clients for equipment which he does not support, specificly Toshiba phone systems. Some out of state, some in the same county, some in the same state. I told him these are existing relationships which I do not feel obligated to give up, or turn over. He agreed.
2) I do cabling jobs on the side and have for ten years, and since he did not train me to do this work, I have and use all my own tools for this work as well as use my tools for work I do for him, that I feel it was right not for me to have to give them up. Also, he does not employ me to do this type of work as a core duty. I do it on ocasion, but less than 10% of my work for him. When somoene wants a new extension, and it needs a short cable run, I will do it to better serve our customer. He agreed. I am a system engineer I program and install Avaya IP and non-IP phone systems.
3) He is an Avaya business partner. I agreed not to work with any of his current customers, or with those I gain a relationship through my work for him.
4) I agreed not to compete with him in his market county with Avaya equipment, or service as long as I am employed by him. He has not given me any training in Avaya equipment so I feel no obligation to not contract outside his market. He agreed.
5) I offered to consider handing off clients to him in a seperate agreement based on a percentage of the gross, not to be reliant on my continued employment, and not to be considered competition if my employment ended.
He has not followed up, but I am looking at a promotion to lead engineer on the Avaya IP Office product, and feel he will when we sit down to discuss the job I have been offered.
Any advice? I am sure he is going to ask for a non-compete, and training reimbursement contract at this point.
I currently hold an Avaya certified associate credential and have implementation product authorization certifications for this product. He did not pay for any of my training on this product. He has incurred no cost to train me, although I have done billed work on IP Office projects and service. The service work I have done because I got up to speed off the clock on my own on this product. The implement work I have done, has not been training as I did only cut overs, and installing hardware which was all billed to the customer as part of the project. The projects did not go over cost to train me, because I was not do anything I did not already know how to do. I did not use company resources to train or study for any of the product authorizations, or ACA credential.
Any advice on what I should expect, ask for, or assert desire for in this upcoming meeting? I would like to get an employers perspective, also any employees who have advice.
As a further note, the non-IP phone system work bills at $95/hr my current majorly billable time, IP phone work at $125/hr. my futire majorly billable time at the company I work for.

Thanks all, in advance.



You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[MDXer]

Any waivers the employer is going to give as far as what is demmeed as compete or non compete you should get in writing signed but someone with authority at the company. As a manager I aften look for why an employee continues in a side business. As an employeer and manager, I question how easily a person can seperate business and work. are they taking calls at the office? if so how do I know it is not in regards to work they are slated for on the weekend? If an employee I know does side work is late or calls in sick is it due to their continued side work.

It's good to get in wiriting as a CYA what is deemed as in violation of you non-compete and if their are conflicts then address those situations and get the resolution in writing, but I wouldn't discuss future work or what-if scenarios as it can leave an impression that you are ensuring yourself an easy exit.

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[chiph]

If he does present you with a non-compete and/or training cost agreement, ask for a couple of days to study the contracts at home. He'll probably think at that point: "He's going to show them to a lawyer".

Which is not a bad idea -- spend a few hundred dollars to get a legal opinion on them in order to potentially save yourself several thousand dollars in lost income.

I am not a lawyer, but I think what you should look for in a non-compete are phrases that limit the time, geography, or both. As well as statements excluding customers you had prior to going to work for him.

In a training cost agreement, I would look for the costs to be pro-rated out over several months (6-12 months, probably). So, take the cost of the course and divide by 12 months (for example). If you leave the company the 1st month after the class, you would owe 11 months worth. 2nd month, you'd owe 10 months, etc. Be wary if you see "Rule of 78" in the contract -- that's a scam. But the lawyer should warn you about that.

Chip H.


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[franklin97355]

As chiph said, a lawyer is a good option. Have him look over the document and include your post when you talk so he can see what you are expecting to happen. He can recommend changes if needed. If you sign without seeing a lawyer don't come to me complaining you were screwed .

 

[aarenot]

Thanks for your response MDXer,

I have been in this industry for about 15 years, I have people who know me personaly who come to me to do work for them. I do not look for side work actively, it comes to me. This probably tells you the type of person, and worker I am, and the type of relationships I have with my side job customers. I do a very small amount of business on the side, maybe 100-150 hours per year, but at least three times my rate of pay at work. That pretty much tells you why I continue in my side work.
As far as wasting time, and doing personal items on company time, I would look to your office staff for that type of behaviour, field people are much less the source of that type of thing. Myself, I do not make or take personal calls at the office for more than one or two minutes, unless I am coming in early, or staying late, and need to make arrangements, or speak to my wife or kids before they are in bed.

I think on the non-compete, if he does not guarantee me a certain number of hours per week, I will not sign it, since I need to make enough money to pay my bills, just like he does. Also, if I have to give up that income, he is going to need to kick something in to cover a good portion of it. My rate of pay now reflects that I have the right to do side work, so I will need that adjusted.

On the training cost agreement, I do not think I will sign one, as the training I have completed on my own, at no cost to my employer, since my employment would have cost him over $15K in 3 years. I may consider it for training cost over a certain amount per year, but not more than that.

P.S. I wrote this on my lunch, not on a company PC, or internet connection.



You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[dgillz]

In the US, most non compete agreements are invalid immediately. In order for a non-compete to be valid it must sepcify both a period of time and a specific geographical area. There may be more requirements but this is what got me out of my last non compete I ever signed. Now I refuse to sign them.

Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

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[mrdenny]

The training paper is fairly standard these days. All it should say it that if you leave the company within the first x months after a company paid for training class that you have to repay the cost of the class. After x+3 months you have to repay a prorated portion of the class.

Odds are if you don't sign it the company won't ever send you to a paid training class.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)

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[MDXer]

And if a company doesn't send you but you go to a paid training class on your own dime your not only out a few thousand dollars but possibly some vacation days for while you went.

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[aarenot]

I did not have to spend a few thousand dollars. I took assesments out of most of the courses. I just studied on my own.
I think I did it for the knowledge, no vacation days used, now I can do side jobs with that product as well, more easily.
I have a question. Since he has only asked and not recieved a non-compete, can I compete?

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[franklin97355]

You can do whatever you want to. The question is what will he do.

 

[aarenot]

Well, the product authorization certs I have are what allow his company to implement this product, without them, he would have to hire in someone new or contract out the work to certified contractors. They charge 5 times what he pays me. So, I am not really sure what he will do. There are not many people in this area that are certified, less than a dozen in the state.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[franklin97355]

Again, ask a lawyer.