Are computers simply too complicated for common use 5

[guestgulkan]

Compared to other household hi-tec equipment, the computer is far and away the most complicated and convuluted to use and probably the most unreliable.

The everyday home computer user does not want to worry about
stuff like operating systems, drivers, and service pack downloading, etc..
He she/wants to take it home, plug it in and have it work
(like the hi-fi, satellite TV, and dare I say it - video recorder).

A lot of computers must end up as expensive oversized paper weights or are resold soon after purchase when it becomes clear that they are a lot more complicated to use than advertised (and probably a lot less interesting).

 

[strongm]

>He she/wants to take it home, plug it in and have it work

The whole, successful philosophy behind games consoles

 

[ghijkl]

"The whole, successful philosophy behind games consoles"

I have always regarded the games universes as exemplary software environments.
Sierra
Nintendo
SIM city and Transport Tycoon

I wonder why none ever tried to be a development environment for real-world systems.

Or does anybody know where i can get my hands on a good universe.

 

[Qube]

Even games consoles are getting more complex now, like the xbox with its hard drive that you can rip cds to etc.

I think that is why people buy iMacs.
Take it out of the box, plug in a few cables, put the cd in the drive (to install the os). You can then surf the internet, check email etc. And you can get them in a colour to match you living room wall paper.

For a lot of basic home this is all they want to be able to do. But for some they start out just wanting to be able to send an email, then they realise they can do so much more.

I know this may sound harsh but have you ever seen somone new to computers that can not even use the mouse, they hold it all wrong and try to click on an icon but the mouse moves before they click where they want.

 

[strongm]

I remember a (possibly aprocryphal) story about a user and a computer mouse, involving them having problems because they were holding the mouse inverted (not upside down, just buttons and lead at the back). When asked why they were trying to use it like that they explained that a mouse's tail (the lead) was always at the back of the real creature.

 

[sha76]

A completly true story about mis-use of a mouse; a manager from another department was in our office & realised she needed some info from her PC, she called down to her office & was trying to give instructions to one of her staff (a manual worker, who had never used a computer before), he insisted the mouse was broken. After she'd gone back to her office it transpired he was pointing the mouse at the screen, like a remote control. We all laughed, it seemed a pretty basic thing, but I guess I wouldn't expect to have got onto this guy's forklift truck & immediately known how to operate that.

Anyway, back on topic, people have tried marketing a more basic product to the general public - you can get phones (landline) which include e-mail access & you can access both e-mail & restricted internet through your cable TV or your mobile (I'm only speaking for the UK here). I know no-one with one of the landline phones & the only people I know with TV or mobile access seem to use it almost exclusively when their PC's not available to them. Seems the general public want something more powerful, even if they're not going to use it, maybe they're seduced by the marketing, maybe they're scared of being left behind by the "technological revolution", maybe they're just keeping up with the Jones's, who knows?

Sharon

 

[MichealC4]

Complex simplicity. Things are starting to get to the point where in order to be simple, you have to be complex. I know that sounds silly, but think about it. In order to give the user a comfortable environment, one that is as fail-safe as possible, the subsystem has to be complex. Of course, I'm not talking about systems that are complex to be complex like servers.

I am Comptia A+ Certified

 

[edemiere]

Well, I am sure that everyone wants to buy a PC and take it home, plug it in and have it work, however, I also think that a lot of people out there probably shouldn't be using computers because they lack common sense (i.e. opening up any attachment they get and basically helping to spread viruses and such).

A certain level of understanding should be necessary or maybe even mandatory before someone should be able to get into a postion to affect literally every single person with a computer, don't you think?

Just a thought...

Cheers!

 

[MichealC4]

edemiere: I agree completely. However, if people had common sense, many of us would be out of a job.

I am Comptia A+ Certified

 

[edemiere]

TechieMicheal

Well, I think that's a given, but I was just addressing that computers might be complicated, but to that end I am glad that people have to depend on others for information (and hopefully their friends and such can tell them do's and don'ts with e-mails and attachments and such, though I know that is foolishly optimistic).

Cheers!

 

[sleipnir214]

edmiere:
If "sense" were truly "common", we'd have a one-word nomenclature for the phenomenon.


guestgulkan:
I wouldn't include VCRs in my list of "simple enough to be usable" appliances. Do you know how many VCRs have blinking time displays simply because the machines owners do not know how to set the time?


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[Craig0201]

"however, I also think that a lot of people out there probably shouldn't be using computers because they lack common sense (i.e. opening up any attachment they get and basically helping to spread viruses and such)."

So, a lot of people out there should be using, for example, a food mixer because they lack common sense? They might, after all put their hands in the mechanism.....

I utterly lack any sort of common sense but can use a PC just fine.....

Craig

 

[PeterUser]

TechieMichael & edemiere:

I think you two are both on the money about this I don't know a lot, but I am learning and my good friend has been showing me and teaching me a LOT about how to identify problems or even virus threats in emails from addresses that I don't recognize.

I like learning new things and I want to enjoy my time that I compute so I take learning very seriously!

As for why game consoles are so popular, I would agree that people buy these so they can just plug them in and play games, but they will always be inferior to a computer unless all you want to do is game. A computer, when used properly is a very good asset and can help you get so much done.

PeterUser

 

[guestgulkan]

'Friends' are probably the biggest cause of bad/stupid/down right idiotic information about computers.

If I had a penny for everytime some computer illiterate disagreed with me (a trained electronics technician) about computers because 'my friend has got a computer and he said....' or 'my next door neighbour has a computer and he said..' , I'd be a rich man.

 

[MichealC4]

PeterUser: I'm glad you have a friend willing to help you out.

edemiere:

I am Comptia A+ Certified

 

[strongm]

>They might, after all put their hands in the mechanism.....

They might, and presumably do on occassion. Witness the fact that, on a trip to the US a number of years ago (I'm normally in the UK) I saw some electric hedge trimmers on sale with the following warning on the side "Not to be used for cutting hair" (or words to that effect); I can only assume that this warning was necessary because, in fact, someone had tried to do exactly that (and then tried to sue the manufacturer)

 

[benlinkknilneb]

strongm:
if only I could have seen the person trying to do that...

gulkan:
I agree totally with your appraisal; many times I've said to people, "It won't work that way, but do what you want and don't mind me... I'm only program computers for a living... what could I *possibly* know?"

all:
I saw this on a t-shirt; it's become my personal motto: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." As long as there is *any* complexity associated with the computer, there will be idiots who make the rest of us very very unhappy with the way they use their machines. However, to be fair to them: there are some people who simply lack the ability think abstractly enough to see the screen as a "desktop" and understand that directories are like a "filing cabinet". I knew this one lady who *had* to have explicit instructions for the 2-3 tasks she did on the computer; it was stuff like "open Word, create a new document, and when you're finished typing, print it" or "open a document that you typed yesterday and saved". It drove me nuts, because I literally had to write it out for her:

1. Click twice on the "Word" icon (made a shortcut on the desktop)

2. Click "File", then Click "Open".

3. Click twice on the document's name. (don't even ask how if it was saved in a different folder... I'd have to come do that for her)

Etc....

Interface (for those people) can never be made simple enough... however, for the typical user, I think we've made major strides in reducing the complexity. Sure, you sometimes have to search for an obscure driver or something, but overall, how much easier is it to open "My Documents" from the start menu (XP) than to do

c:\> cd \Documents and Settings\John Doe\My Documents
c:\> dir

?

I'd much prefer click-click than all the command-line stuff we used to do...

 

[edemiere]

sleipnir214

Good point on the VCR's, no wonder the vomit bags on airplanes have instructions on them.

Craig0201
Well, then allow me to coin a new phrase, "common computing sense". That work a little better for you?

PeterUser
That's great that you have a teacher of sorts, I just hope it's someone that is technically knowledgable and can tell you what to do and what not to do, but more imporantly what the implications of your actions can be should you not heed that advice. Know what I mean?

Good topic though.

Cheers everyone!

 

[greyted]

guestgulkan,
Your "Friends" remark is spot on and their advice is responsible for 75% of my clientele. In a perverse way they enable me to earn a reasonable living.
If computer users are instructed in the security problems they are going to encounter on the web then we would all benefit.
IMHO computer salespersons or the companies these people are employed by are responsible for the majority of these problems. Some people are sold computers and then the company will get a call out and charge an excessive fee to set the computer up correctly.
Manufacturers sell Home computers for the home I assume so one would think that the instructions would be understandable to the average member of the public with the correct security information included.
Many of these single sheet instruction manuals can be quite nightmarish to people. Rather like buying packaged furniture and then assembling it. The pictures look like a cupboard but one has a finished product more like a chair.
PeterUser,
Your friend is probably knowledgeable with regard to teaching you computer related problem solving, it is fun, or should be. This site is for Techs (Computer Professionals), if you require I will post links to sites that have extremely knowledgeable and helpful people who will help with IT problems and very informative these guys are.
There are sites that deal with security and spyware, so help is available.
Google will link to Tek-Tips so people will visit this site for help with what would be a simple thing for techs here to answer but to the person requiring assistance it is obviously not a simple problem.
guestgulkan,
Back on topic, if computers are purchased for home use then they should be fit for the purpose, often they are not. Advertising, I agree with you. Unethical selling?
Some of your points I agree with, paper weights or resold.
I do disagree with your point that people lose interest, I find the exact opposite. If people are shown or could read a good manual that explains how the computer should be assembled and the basic functions of the beast they are so interested. Guess I would put the figure of high interest at 70% to 80% and most get involved in Genealogy or building their own web site, communicating with relatives overseas. Others have set up their own business online, a bit of encouragement is all that is required.
Seen a guy of 74 become so proficient in Digital Photography, it has given him a new lease of life. Again a bit of guidance on the required equipment plus a course costing £20 and one very happy gentleman.
edemiere,
Most clients I know have a fear of technology not a lack of commonsense.

Apologise if this turned into a rant guys but the subject and thread are very good.


Ted

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think the biggest problem with computers as related to this thread is not their inherant complexity, but rather in the gross inconsistencies of the user interface from application to application. That couple with the fact that there are always several different ways to do the same thing makes things much more difficult and confusing than they have to be.

If I had to claim just one thing, it would be inconsistent user interfaces.

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein