Application and peripheral compatability with Windows 10 2

[jrbarnett]

Is there any general word on application and peripheral compatability for windows 10?

Like many of you, I have read Microsoft's recent announcement of the public Windows 10 launch from 29th July and have seen the icon to opt in to it. Given that when I upgraded from Windows 7 to 8.1 there were driver incompatabilities with my USB wifi adapter, resulting in purchase of a new one with Windows 8.1 driver support, there seems to be a dearth of information regarding peripheral device and software compatability.

I had similar issues when moving from XP to Windows 7, needing to junk an otherwise perfectly good scanner because of lack of driver support. In other cases I am sure it is a way of the vendors trying to sell new kit or version upgrades (eg one of them still runs Office 2007).

As I am the IT support for a number of family and friends who are likely to be in a similar situation of a PC or laptop eligible for a free upgrade, I am likely to hold off installing it for a few months to let the early adopters find issues and workarounds, and recommend they do likewise before taking the plunge.

I've been doing this now for too long to assume everything will work smoothly with no issues...

What are other people doing to test this sort of thing?

John

 

[linney]

A lot of people have been running the Windows 10 Technical Preview as a way of testing machines out. I myself have been running as a Dual Boot with Windows 8.1. I have not as yet run in to any incompatible hardware or software problems in the months that I have been testing. That doesn't mean that you, or others, wont run in to those sort of problems, but if they are coming from a Windows 8.1 machine to Windows 10 they should be OK in my opinion.

 

[dilettante]

Windows 10 comes with a guarantee:

"It will work on your PC until it don't. Then you're screwed."

To make sure you have to keep buying new hardware the plan is to roll out frequent mandatory major updates... until they do break your PC and make you buy new hardware.

No amount of testing is going to defeat this planned obsolesence.

 

[rclarke250]

Then you just go back to 7 or 8.1...or better yet, Linux. Personally I have 2 HTPC's that will never go to 10 most likely, because the a$$hat$ at M$ didn't want to include a working version of windows media center, and my cable tuner cards need it to work. So at least 2 of my 8 computers will stay on 7.

 

[apstef]

Then you just go back to 7 or 8.1...or better yet, Linux. Personally I have 2 HTPC's that will never go to 10 most likely, because the a$$hat$ at M$ didn't want to include a working version of windows media center, and my cable tuner cards need it to work. So at least 2 of my 8 computers will stay on 7.

Isn't that their fault to rely on specific software? I don't think you should blame MS for this, but your tuner manufacturer.

 

[strongm]

>mandatory major updates

That looks like it will depend on which version of Windows 10 you get

And there is still time for them to change their mind on this, since they haven't really made any official statement.

 

[strongm]

Apologies, I was mistaken; they do have an official statement, hidden in here (and carefully avoiding the word mandatory):

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-specifications

Note that it confirms that different versions of Windows 10 can have different Update policies (basically, if you are on Home edition, all is mandatory)

 

[rclarke250]

Actually I blame the cable companies for dragging their feet on going to AllVid and dropping mandated cablecards as the FCC purposed in 2010 then I wouldn't need a tuner card at all, because IPTV, and Internet TV would be supported.

 

[dilettante]

What worries me is that home users must just "update and die" as Windows churn breaks key applications or removes key features during the life of Windows 10. And some of those "features" can be "your current hardware (CPU, motherboard, etc.) is supported by Windows 10."

I'm not sure how Enterprise users are much better off. It sounds like they gain one tiny advantage: some mandatory updates can be deferred for 30 days or so giving them a month to cope, then die anyway.

Even more hilarious... I'm on a Vista machine right now and IE 9 is the last version supported there. I had to use Chrome to even be able to view the page at the link above. Microsoft can't even support an OS still on extended support!

In any case there isn't a lot we can do about it one way or another. But the result might not leave people very happy. I guess this is one way to deal with the slump in PC sales, eh?

 

[Nelviticus]

To make sure you have to keep buying new hardware the plan is to roll out frequent mandatory major updates... until they do break your PC and make you buy new hardware.

What worries me is that home users must just "update and die" as Windows churn breaks key applications or removes key features during the life of Windows 10. And some of those "features" can be "your current hardware (CPU, motherboard, etc.) is supported by Windows 10."

I think you're catastrophising - stressing about things that haven't happened yet and probably won't. All we know is that updates for the Home edition will be automatic and can't be disabled; the rest is pessimistic speculation.

For balance, allow me to speculate just as fancifully in the opposite direction: future updates will allow Windows 10 to work on older and older hardware that currently won't even run Windows 95, and applications and peripherals that haven't worked since Vista will eventually gain support and start working under 10.

Nelviticus

 

[jrbarnett]

I concur with dilletante's point exactly - if I am not sure everything will work, I risk something that previously worked not doing so following the upgrade. Due to lack of available resources (including time) I haven't used any of the beta or preview releases at all, so I am to some extent flying blind on this. Work wise, I will have colleagues looking at this, I am more concerned about the home users.

On a related note - what happens with enterprise edition and WSUS (or whatever it is called now)? will deferring the release for more than 30 days brick enterprise Windows 10 enterprise installs?

Thank you all for your comments.

John

 

[dilettante]

From the experience with Windows 8.x it sounds like anyone who manages to block updating doesn't have a dead PC but merely one considered unsupported, and unable to get future updates. Turning updating back on and catching up probably eliminates this.

But if one of these updates (far larger than the Patch Tuesday burdens of the present) happens to break something, remove something, etc. you do not have the option of skipping it and moving forward.

What can break? Well, eligibility to run Windows 10 already requires a number of CPU features. 12 months out an update could "up the game" and you might end up with 100 or 1000 PCs that are now no longer supported and can't even get security patches as exploits are uncovered in Windows 10. Sorry, all those Windwows 7 era machines you updated to Windows 10 are obsolete. Time to buy more!

And no notice of it coming. One morning updates just stop working.

Not to mention the more serious problem that these rolling updates might break all kinds of critical applications - too bad, so sad. Once applied you may not even be able to roll them back and block updating. Even if that works you have an emergency on your hands as you scramble hoping the applications can be reworked so that you can get back on the rolling updates parade.

All of this has a deja vu feeling to it. Yes, this is a lot like the fears about Windows Update when it was new. But the difference is these are going to be large updates meant to replace service packs and even new versions of Windows from here on out. Windows 10 is talked about as "the last version of Windows.

 

[strongm]

>these are going to be large updates
One of the whole points is to have smaller, higher frequency updates available than currently. Not larger ones.

>meant to replace service packs and even new versions of Windows from here on out
Here's a description from last year of the various update options that will be available:

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...s-biggest-ever-change-in-windows-updates.html

 

[dilettante]

The "smaller" and "higher frequency" are in contrast to the Service Packs and new versions Windows users saw in the past. These are not the same as the small monthly sets of patches seen with Windows before Windows 8.

 

[strongm]

Indeed - but that's not what you said, and what I was really disputing; I quote:

these are going to be large updates meant to replace service packs

 

[dilettante]

I said what I meant.

These will be large, far larger than we've seen in the past outside of Service Packs. And mandatory. And they will intentionally break things, and have to since they will replace the use of Service Packs and even new versions of Windows.

Part of the idea is to prevent anyone from ever "freezing" on Windows XP for long periods of time. They we scared by that and are worried that others will now "freeze" on Windows 7.

Windows 10 is intended to prevent anyone from ever doing so again... no matter what it costs.


Why pretend you don't understand the weasel-speak from Microsoft that tries to pave this over?

 

[strongm]

You appear to have grown increasingly bitter about Microsoft and their products over the last few years. Not quite sure why you don't just jump ship.

 

[dilettante]

That's probably a sad truth.

A lot of it may come from exposure to clients who are jumping ship. Some of them don't even have any Windows PCs anymore except for a few used to support remaining legacy applications moved to Citrix servers until replaced by new applications. Everything else has moved to Chrome OS and Android and a few Macs.

Those staying on Windows present a constant struggle and we go through round after round of problems as they keep trying to move to Windows 8.1 and we keep having to fall back and address things we thought were fixed. These challenges are far greater than those faced getting off Windows XP years ago, and if it was just about more work I'd welcome it. Sadly nobody wants to spend much money though, so workarounds have to be found and implemented on a shoestring.

Windows 10 just appears to be amplifying the problems. Last one out be sure to turn off the lights!

 

[goombawaho]

dilettante - you have a tough life. I haven't seen any of the problems you mentioned!
Nobody is defecting from MS in my world, unless having an iphone/ipad counts.
Maybe you have difficult customers. Need to start cherry-picking some easy customers.

And another happy thought. I know of only one XP machine at one customer.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.