Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations SkipVought on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
anyone in a betting mood regarding Avaya chapter 11 15
- Thread starter Westi
- Start date
biglebowski
Technical User
- Thread starter
- #3
thanks biglebowski
and there I thought I have the inside track on information, LOL
I know that most business partners in our area have started selling different brands because Avaya leaves them alone and there is not even a channel manager available to assist in sales any more.
Apparently the new CEO was also crap. Going fully cloud makes apparently not a lot of sense for a company that has so many small customers with analog lines and bad Internet connections.
We all
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
and there I thought I have the inside track on information, LOL
I know that most business partners in our area have started selling different brands because Avaya leaves them alone and there is not even a channel manager available to assist in sales any more.
Apparently the new CEO was also crap. Going fully cloud makes apparently not a lot of sense for a company that has so many small customers with analog lines and bad Internet connections.
We all
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
-
1
- #4
Travis Harper
Technical User
If Avaya goes into Chapter 11, in my opinioit will be the similar to 2016 to restructure the debt. No liquidation.
Avaya is not going anywhere.
The CEO admits that Avaya over rotated on the subscription/cloud model, and is keeping perpetual licensing and premise systems, as it actually gives Avaya a unique advantage over the other big players that put all their eggs into the cloud basket, especially as it relates to healthcare and public sector.
I really think this is all good news for Avaya.
Avaya is not going anywhere.
The CEO admits that Avaya over rotated on the subscription/cloud model, and is keeping perpetual licensing and premise systems, as it actually gives Avaya a unique advantage over the other big players that put all their eggs into the cloud basket, especially as it relates to healthcare and public sector.
I really think this is all good news for Avaya.
- Thread starter
- #5
Hi Travis
I hope you are right. I work with Grandstream in my company here and it is great to program and flexible as can be but the user end of it is crap.
It is so "not intuitive" compared to the Avaya phone use that it hurts me to tell people how to use their phones.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
I hope you are right. I work with Grandstream in my company here and it is great to program and flexible as can be but the user end of it is crap.
It is so "not intuitive" compared to the Avaya phone use that it hurts me to tell people how to use their phones.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
hostedguru
Systems Engineer
Avaya are finished they have been for ages 95% of company's are now going hosted
In December Avaya hinted at axed products but has anyone seen an update?
-
1
- Thread starter
- #8
Not to start the hosted vs on-prem again but 95% is maybe your experience but we see small and medium companies that are owner operated and they have a calculator and add up the cost for hosted for each phone they have and want something that they have only the line cost after a few years rather than having the per seat cost until the end.
We have about 15% hosted 20% on old old Nortel systems planning to maybe upgrade to another on-prem system because they see the balance sheet for it and then 65% are regular on-prem Avaya and Grandstream which can both support remote and app users so that they have the flexibility to work from anywhere.
The more rural you get the more on-prem they get because the Internet speed is still not everywhere up to fibre or coax full abilities.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
We have about 15% hosted 20% on old old Nortel systems planning to maybe upgrade to another on-prem system because they see the balance sheet for it and then 65% are regular on-prem Avaya and Grandstream which can both support remote and app users so that they have the flexibility to work from anywhere.
The more rural you get the more on-prem they get because the Internet speed is still not everywhere up to fibre or coax full abilities.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
Avaya seem keen to go down to the cloud route looking at their website
A Clear, Cloud-focused Product Roadmap
As a product person at heart, I’m especially excited about our Avaya product roadmap. Our teams collectively took a step back to determine how we can best give customers the capabilities they need to make the cloud journey at their pace. We prioritized resources based on what customers need most and developed a clear set of milestones and timelines that we can commit to delivering, on time and with quality. What we tell you we’re going to deliver, we’ll deliver.
A Clear, Cloud-focused Product Roadmap
As a product person at heart, I’m especially excited about our Avaya product roadmap. Our teams collectively took a step back to determine how we can best give customers the capabilities they need to make the cloud journey at their pace. We prioritized resources based on what customers need most and developed a clear set of milestones and timelines that we can commit to delivering, on time and with quality. What we tell you we’re going to deliver, we’ll deliver.
-
1
- Thread starter
- #10
They hope that they get a big chunk of the customers that move from an on-prem Avaya system looking for something new I guess.
They forget about all the thousands of customers with an Avaya IP Office and even older (Partner, Magix ...) systems that cannot go cloud due to network or Internet connection issues.
I remember a quote to a manufacturing plant that had 80 or so analog phones on the floor for emergencies only and them going cloud would have been an idiotic amount of money for phones that are used less than once a year. Those are the customers that look for new on-prem solutions and even though the bottom line is less than on a cloud system they are customers that also bring other business like cabling and maintenance agreements. Avaya just doesn't want the business partners to get the money that they could siphon off for sets and programming changes, new sets etc.
Greed will break their neck. I already hear it cracking.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
They forget about all the thousands of customers with an Avaya IP Office and even older (Partner, Magix ...) systems that cannot go cloud due to network or Internet connection issues.
I remember a quote to a manufacturing plant that had 80 or so analog phones on the floor for emergencies only and them going cloud would have been an idiotic amount of money for phones that are used less than once a year. Those are the customers that look for new on-prem solutions and even though the bottom line is less than on a cloud system they are customers that also bring other business like cabling and maintenance agreements. Avaya just doesn't want the business partners to get the money that they could siphon off for sets and programming changes, new sets etc.
Greed will break their neck. I already hear it cracking.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
hostedguru
Systems Engineer
why do people always say its more expensive for hosted the ongoing cost is most times cheaper and it works well in schools with the special licencing we do
Hosted is more expensive over 3 years +, you never own anything and pay the same amount per user.
Whiles an on-prem system is fixed assets so once the system is paid off (if it lease) only lines and maintenance for running cost.
Generally, we find that the lifecycle for a system is 7+ years (although we do have some customers that have had the same system for over 15 years)
Whiles an on-prem system is fixed assets so once the system is paid off (if it lease) only lines and maintenance for running cost.
Generally, we find that the lifecycle for a system is 7+ years (although we do have some customers that have had the same system for over 15 years)
-
2
- #14
Rhinorhino
Vendor
VOIP HOSTED costs are like being back in the old Bell System rental days except you don't have the high quality service and support and commitment to excellence that the Bell System had in those days.
What I find is most of the time the QOS is inferior to good old POTS lines and PRI circuits.
I see absolutely no advantage to hosted.
What I find is most of the time the QOS is inferior to good old POTS lines and PRI circuits.
I see absolutely no advantage to hosted.
The hosted Vs on prem debate cost wise is purely depending how long a system is kept for, we have customers with 20+ year systems who never want to move to hosted as they expect to get the same lifespan out of a new system.
Lots of companies will happily install on on-prem system on a 5 year lease and rip it out for a new kit straight away.
We are not doing much Avaya at all anymore, we have moved to NEC for the majority of on prem and doing 8x8 for hosted.
Calum M
ACSS
Lots of companies will happily install on on-prem system on a 5 year lease and rip it out for a new kit straight away.
We are not doing much Avaya at all anymore, we have moved to NEC for the majority of on prem and doing 8x8 for hosted.
Calum M
ACSS
biglebowski
Technical User
We are CNI (critical national infrastructure) so are not allowed to run unsupported software. In the last 7 years we have gone from 6.3 > 7.1 > 8.1 and are currently planning to move to hosted 10.2 later this year.
Hosted makes a lot of sense as each upgrade is around £100k
The whole chapter 11 thing is slightly worrying from the perspective that MS have banging on their door to buy the contact centre area for a while and it may appeal now.
Hosted makes a lot of sense as each upgrade is around £100k
The whole chapter 11 thing is slightly worrying from the perspective that MS have banging on their door to buy the contact centre area for a while and it may appeal now.
- Thread starter
- #17
biglebowski
England is a tiny country with good infrastructure in (I would guess) 90% of all places where people live. North America is almost 4000 times the size of it and has places where people still don't have reliable cell service, if at all, or they are on 3G not even LTE and can only dream of 5G.
With good Internet you can do hosted but still if I buy a $4000 system or pay for hosted per user there is a cutover when hosted costs you more money.
HOWEVER
if you have to have reliability and failover and uptime then you see that hosted has advantages but of course it has to be paid for.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
England is a tiny country with good infrastructure in (I would guess) 90% of all places where people live. North America is almost 4000 times the size of it and has places where people still don't have reliable cell service, if at all, or they are on 3G not even LTE and can only dream of 5G.
With good Internet you can do hosted but still if I buy a $4000 system or pay for hosted per user there is a cutover when hosted costs you more money.
HOWEVER
if you have to have reliability and failover and uptime then you see that hosted has advantages but of course it has to be paid for.
Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS
"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque
-
1
- #18
biglebowski
Technical User
Oh we have areas with no internet or mobile coverage as well but we find that not building contact centres or major offices there helps a great deal.
- Thread starter
- #19
-
1
- #20
Hosted also come with new problems, all customers we have on hosted no matter how good the internet connection is with softphone or mobile app issues with "poor call quality" or "call breaking up" or "one way speech"
We now have to check the laptops, PC etc as when you have lots of applications open, and lots of tabs in a browser, running a softphone on this has an effect on the call.
Home workers are another issue as users don't realize that having streaming services running in the background, poor wifi has an effect on calls.
We now have to check the laptops, PC etc as when you have lots of applications open, and lots of tabs in a browser, running a softphone on this has an effect on the call.
Home workers are another issue as users don't realize that having streaming services running in the background, poor wifi has an effect on calls.
- Status
