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Regarding thread461-1015870 (how good is Mitel), the suggestion that the cost to deploy a new Mitel 3300 for 400+ users vs upgradeing an existing Nortel 61 is probably a little exaggerated. I am experienced in Nortel, Avaya, Cisco, & Mitel IPT solution sales. I currently work for the largest Mitel reseller in the Central/Southern US and I would suggest that a thorough needs assesment of the client's enterprise would need to be conducted first before any salesman could make such a claim. However, a few points to keep in mind:
- Mitel is far less expensive to maintain regarding SW upgrades.
- Mitel 3300 will support Nortel PBX digital phones with a full feature set allowing an existing Nortel customer to save on their initial investment if switching to Mitel.
- Microsoft is using the Mitel 3300 in their demo facilities to showcase LCS. Nortel, Avaya, Cisco, etc are not up to speed. Nortel's version of LCS (MCS5100) was a complete failure and I would be interested if anyone actually paid the outlandish cost to implement?
If your looking to roll out VoIP at your enterprise, the 3300 will offer the most "bang for your buck" and is by far, the easist of the mentioned to administor and train on. Mitel, simply put, does not market and is known as an industry leader in R&D. This is why they are not as prevelant as Nortel or Cisco.
For the Cisco biggots, Cisco has created a product in which all parts are dependent on one another for functionality. Cisco communicates the increased integration, but not the lack of true integration, ongoing pain and cost. That may be true, but a more important reality is that as the client wants to make changes or upgrades to one component (i.e.: Call Manager) they have to consider the impact on all of the others, and then most likely are forced to do wholesale upgrades to the entire network to accommodate.
For example, to upgrade to Cisco Call Manager 5.0, Cisco clients are forced to carefully review entire network and go through upgrades to core Routers at corporate, IOS Software, Servers (if Linux is driver to upgrade), edge Routers, edge SRST (survivability) and IOS. Regardless of the potential cost, the amount of late-night work, and interruption to a clients business could be staggering.
It would be much like buying a car that requires you to overhaul your engine and transmission every time you replace your tires, and you had to do some of the labor each time. Even if the parts where free and the car was fast, who has time for the headaches?
An average Cisco installation takes roughly 250 minutes per user. By comparison - Mitel averages roughly 55 minutes per user for install portion.
Questions a client should ask based on this:
Can my business unit, management team, IT staff etc, afford to be tied up with vendors on an install for that long?
If it takes this much to install, do I have the staff to maintain such a complex system?
What will my REAL cost be when all is said and done?
Is the vendor giving me a written guarantee that all cost overruns are their responsibility and not mine??
Secondly, Cisco has created a product as follows: Take 15 Engineers, tell one to create a VOIP system, one to create a voice mail, one a paging interface, one a management system, and so on. Send them to separate cities for 2 years, tell them not to communicate at all. Meet at the end of 2 years with completed products and make them all work together as one. You end up with a "Frankenstein" that must be cobbled together. Although all components are in the same skin, they where not originally designed to work together and create ongoing integration and management problems.
Bottom line, my organization competes with Cisco roughly 75% of the time and in 90% of these instances, the client enters a demo "bleeding blue" and leaves thinking "Cisco who"?
JW
Houston,TX
- Mitel is far less expensive to maintain regarding SW upgrades.
- Mitel 3300 will support Nortel PBX digital phones with a full feature set allowing an existing Nortel customer to save on their initial investment if switching to Mitel.
- Microsoft is using the Mitel 3300 in their demo facilities to showcase LCS. Nortel, Avaya, Cisco, etc are not up to speed. Nortel's version of LCS (MCS5100) was a complete failure and I would be interested if anyone actually paid the outlandish cost to implement?
If your looking to roll out VoIP at your enterprise, the 3300 will offer the most "bang for your buck" and is by far, the easist of the mentioned to administor and train on. Mitel, simply put, does not market and is known as an industry leader in R&D. This is why they are not as prevelant as Nortel or Cisco.
For the Cisco biggots, Cisco has created a product in which all parts are dependent on one another for functionality. Cisco communicates the increased integration, but not the lack of true integration, ongoing pain and cost. That may be true, but a more important reality is that as the client wants to make changes or upgrades to one component (i.e.: Call Manager) they have to consider the impact on all of the others, and then most likely are forced to do wholesale upgrades to the entire network to accommodate.
For example, to upgrade to Cisco Call Manager 5.0, Cisco clients are forced to carefully review entire network and go through upgrades to core Routers at corporate, IOS Software, Servers (if Linux is driver to upgrade), edge Routers, edge SRST (survivability) and IOS. Regardless of the potential cost, the amount of late-night work, and interruption to a clients business could be staggering.
It would be much like buying a car that requires you to overhaul your engine and transmission every time you replace your tires, and you had to do some of the labor each time. Even if the parts where free and the car was fast, who has time for the headaches?
An average Cisco installation takes roughly 250 minutes per user. By comparison - Mitel averages roughly 55 minutes per user for install portion.
Questions a client should ask based on this:
Can my business unit, management team, IT staff etc, afford to be tied up with vendors on an install for that long?
If it takes this much to install, do I have the staff to maintain such a complex system?
What will my REAL cost be when all is said and done?
Is the vendor giving me a written guarantee that all cost overruns are their responsibility and not mine??
Secondly, Cisco has created a product as follows: Take 15 Engineers, tell one to create a VOIP system, one to create a voice mail, one a paging interface, one a management system, and so on. Send them to separate cities for 2 years, tell them not to communicate at all. Meet at the end of 2 years with completed products and make them all work together as one. You end up with a "Frankenstein" that must be cobbled together. Although all components are in the same skin, they where not originally designed to work together and create ongoing integration and management problems.
Bottom line, my organization competes with Cisco roughly 75% of the time and in 90% of these instances, the client enters a demo "bleeding blue" and leaves thinking "Cisco who"?
JW
Houston,TX