advice and opinioins on working for a State Agency 1

[mlchris2]

I am looking at a position with the state of nevada. Can I get some advice and opinions on working for the state of NV or any state agency for that matter. How is pay, benefits, etc? How does it differ from the private sector?

this job would be a step up for me... as far as my career goes... just on the fence about working for a state agency. I've heard over the last few years they are doing just as many layoffs as the private sector is, so the stigma that State or Government jobs are safe seems not the case.

I appreciate any info you can send my way.

Mark C.

 

[Glenn9999]

Having some relevant experience, I can relay some things.

How is pay, benefits, etc? How does it differ from the private sector?

Pay is typically much lower ($10-15K when I was working) for the equivalent job. Benefits tend to be more than standard private jobs. However, there is something you probably haven't thought of when it comes to public sector jobs.

The big problem you'll have with public sector jobs over private sector jobs is the bureaucracy involved. Generally public sector jobs are governed by state law, which tends to pit different groups of state employees against one another in terms of feeling favored/not favored. For example, if group x gets a general raise, group y will be up in arms because they didn't get the same raise, even if group x got the raise to meet/retain employees in the general market.

This means that in management there is a goal towards equality in treatment. Which means, your pay and anything outside what is given to all employees will be dictated on static criteria. This means that your age, years of experience and general skill classification (like where I was, it was "Information Technologist" as opposed to "Park Ranger") will wholly dictate your pay and opportunities you receive instead of any merit or value you present to the state agency you work for.

Be prepared to see worthless slobs with more years than you get paid more than you and get to do more interesting things than you. Show up, pretend to get some work done (right or wrong, as long as it's "completed"), and you'll get ahead in government work. Incompetence is as much value as competence.

I've heard over the last few years they are doing just as many layoffs as the private sector is

This leads me into my last point. As you may gather from my post above, public sector jobs are highly subject to the whims of your elected officials. Be prepared to be politically involved, because you will be whether you want to or not in taking a state job. And be prepared to be reassigned to work in other locations, and even be prepared to lose your job each day, because both would be possible at the hands your elected officials who do not know you and you have never met with no notice to you whatsoever. In other words, you can come into your job that very day and find out you don't have one.

The perception of government jobs being "safe" is accurate because the elected officials tend to largesse rather than efficiency, and would rather hire than not hire. But economic conditions since 1999 have brought many states to cut funds and cut employees.

I know it sounds pessimistic, but it is a realistic view of what you should be prepared for.

It is not possible for anyone to acknowledge truth when their salary depends on them not doing it.

 

[Thadeus]

Be prepared to see worthless slobs with more years than you get paid more than you and get to do more interesting things than you. Show up, pretend to get some work done (right or wrong, as long as it's "completed"), and you'll get ahead in government work. Incompetence is as much value as competence.

Having experience across both sectors, I think this line applies just as equally to private sector equivalent positions. If the role is "paper-pushing-administrating-cog-creating nothing", "contributing at least as much grief for those around you as you your entire worth to the organization", then I'd have to say I've seen so many it always amazes me companies can have such buffer and not care. I've watched entire departments trimmed of productive resources to make budget and the same bozos put in charge of "actioning a new synergistic vision" for the skeleton crew remaining.

And as to the rest of your commentary, I have to agree with your assessment of quality not being rewarded... and note that I haven't seen it rewarded enough in the corporate sector either. I have watched people promoted in responsibility for years of service (service that was only barely competently performed in the first place) and watched other people wallow away in the same position at the same pay for years... These second 'other' people are usually too busy working to look for other work.

Can't say I see enough difference in the general climate... I certainly do with regards to budget and whims of one department or union messing with the entire budget process.

Definitely interesting topic... and so very plainly these are my personal observations only. I did not mean to imply that Glenn9999 is incorrect in any way whatsoever.

~thadeus

 

[Glenn9999]

Having experience across both sectors, I think this line applies just as equally to private sector equivalent positions.

True, but it exists so much more in the public sector than in the private at all levels it's almost unreal. It becomes a huge stressor, if you happen to have the ability to do anything, since you realize you are doing not only your work, but coming in behind the incompetents to fix their problems. But yes it exists in both.

And as to the rest of your commentary, I have to agree with your assessment of quality not being rewarded... and note that I haven't seen it rewarded enough in the corporate sector either.

True on the corporate sector. But my point was that the system I had to deal with was set up that there was absolutely no possibility of quality being rewarded. The only way you get any reward/raise is seniority and in some cases affirmative action changes (assuming you happen to be lucky to be in those classes).

When you're having to do the job of the person with 20 years experience because they know nothing about their own job, that says something alone about how quality is vetted. I understand this is very common with state government.

Can't say I see enough difference in the general climate... I certainly do with regards to budget and whims of one department or union messing with the entire budget process.

I'm well aware of this in the private sector regarding different divisions of the company. The public sector over-blows this because it's out in the open with the legislature. This brings in the argument of completely separate classes of employees (i.e. IT versus Park Ranger or Jailer) complaining because the legislature chooses to give a raise to one class and not to the others. For example, in my state in the run-up to Y2K, the legislature chose to do that with IT because the old salary they were paying was totally laughable compared to the private sector (about $20-25K less). Even suggesting this caused the other groups to descend on the legislature like a firestorm and they couldn't get it passed without making some accommodations. A similar situation happened while I was working there with law enforcement officials. Very messy and very nasty.

Just being in the line of fire of these political aspects, along with the publicity it brings(*), is a unique stressor to working in the public sector.

(*) - you'd be surprised the number of my co-workers that didn't realize that their salaries were fully public because of the state financial requirements I referred to in the other post.

It is not possible for anyone to acknowledge truth when their salary depends on them not doing it.

 

[mlchris2]

huh... all very interesting. Real good eye-opening information. what to do... what to do...

Mark C.

 

[SQLSister]

I've worked in both and while government work is usually less flexible (flex time is harder to come by for instance), I have not found many of the other myths about government employment to be true.

First, yes government agencies fire people and yes sometimes they fire the wrong people and keep the wrong people. This is just like private industry.

Yes there are slackers and incompetents in government, but I have found just as many in private industry such as the CEOs girlfriend in a position she was manifestly unqualified for, the president of the company who fired the graphic artist to hire his cousin, the programmer who couldn't program his way out of a paper bag but who was really good at taking credit for other people's work, so managment thought he was great, etc. Office politics can be far more aggressive in private industry because there is more flexibility to reward those who play the political game well.

There are good and bad employess in all industries and sectors, private, government and non-profit. Some individual organzations are better than others including some government agencies are better than others.

You get into some areas like cryptography and NASA and you have some pretty good systems and programmers because they can't afford anything else. Other agencies don't have the budget to get modern equipment or have outsourced their work to govenrment contractors (Yeah I've worked for those too and they too have incompetent employees no one wants to get rid of) and their IT folks just do project management which isn't what someone who wants to code is interested in.

On the other hand, government often has really interesting projects to work on. Not just another website or another boring business app. Again this varies widely by agency.

Some pluses to government work, you know what your peers make and if you are there a long time you won't be paid less than the new hire who has a lower skill level and job (this happens all the time in private industry). The minus is that if you are good at negotiating salary it won't do you any good, the position pay is set long before they hire.

Generally everyone get sthe same benefits and has to deal with the same rules. So you don't get (and I've run into all of these in private industry):
People who make the most getting their lunches paid for everyday
Low level employees not getting a pay raise because business is bad but we can afford to buy a 60K company car for one of the senior employees
Paychecks that bounce because there isn't enough money in the account to pay them (well this one didn't happen to me, but I know many people it has happened to)
Employees who get drastically different benefits in terms of work flexibility, leave, company cars based on who they are friends with
Freezing pay raises and then openly giving your girlfriend a 50 pay raise
Firing people for no valid reason other than they want to give the job to someone else (usually a realtive graduating from college).

In state and local government (but rarely in Federal government) you may get some enforced days off without pay when the budget gets tight. This is especially true of states which have a constitutional requirement to balance the budget.

As far as I can tell, the worst places to work for are often fairly small privately-owned companies. They reward almost solely based on office politics, they have lousy benefits compared to larger industries and they are the most likely to be skating on a thin edge to make payroll. Ther are also the ones most likely to find ways to emply thier friends and families in jobs they are not qualified for and have no concept of how to even start being qualified.




"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[mlchris2]

the position pay is set long before they hire.

that right there is the biggest thing I am having trouble dealing with...discussing in other thread. HERE

Mark C.

 

[Stella740pl]

Having experience in both sectors, I agree with most SQLSister said.

I want to add, though:

the position pay is set long before they hire

and besides, they often have a rule of how much higher they can offer you comparing to what your previous job paid you, but they also just as often may have the flexibility (not always, though) to offer you the next level up position with a higher pay.

Say, if you are applying for a position such-and-such, and it has an hierarchy of 3 different skill level categories, they may sometimes have the leeway to offer you 2nd instead of 1st if your skills and previous salary is high enough.

Same with the personal raises (those after a performance review, not made across the board). Your current position's salary range may or may not have the room for a raise, but in many cases you may be promoted to the next level with a higher pay instead.

 

[ousoonerjoe]

My wife is in HR, and she iterated to me several times that she does not like hiring long-term state employees. She says their work ethic tends to be lacking in comparison to the private sector. Now, with that said, she says there are exceptions to every rule, but experience has shown her that once a person has about 4 or more years in government work, the damage is done. They will play the politics as opposed to just doing the work.

I say this not as a slam, but to give you a heads up about the view of government workers through the eyes of private sector HR Recruiters.

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Stubbornness is a virtue -- if you are right. --Chuck Noll
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[TechMaven]

I work for a State Government (cannot reveal which). My previous job was outsourced to India and this was my only choice at the time. Pay is terrible. Benefits are good (not great, are anyones?). We just recently had mandatory furlough days and a REDUCTION in salary. We have had three rounds of layoffs. The state budget is hundreds of millions in the red. Personally, it's hard to make ends meet. Many co-workers have two or three jobs. The people here are what makes it worthwhile. We work very hard and lots of us are doing the work of two or three people. Everything is done to save money. Our workstations are not cleaned, cubicles seldom if ever vacuumed. Pretty much all they do is empty the wastebaskets. There is no free tea or coffee, we even pay for our own water! The environment is spartan not luxurious, furniture is old, stationary supply cabinet often empty, a/c thermostat set high and oh we have to switch the lights off when we leave at night.

 

[tnphoneman]

You want to be rewarded for your own hard work and quality. Own the darn business. This is the only true way you will be rewarded for your hard work. You can also be the one responsible for rewarding your employees thus having a loyal workforce to count on.

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[Noway2]

I have been watching this thread over the last few weeks and have been wanting to comment. I am in a unique position in that I do work for a state government and my wife runs her own business; she started it after losing her job during this recession and I obtained this job during it.

First, irrespective of what all the political sound bytes say these days, having a "small business" is not a panacea and it doesn't miraculously "create jobs". Getting it off the ground takes a VERY long time and a lot of money. For anybody with a mortgage, car payments, mouths to feed, and utilities to pay, it simply isn't something you can just go an do. Our plan is to get this business going without it going into debt, the burden of which could easily crush it.

Second, as I mentioned, I have recently started working for the state after having spent the last 15 years working for corporations. The people I work with now, put in more effort and take more pride in their work than I have seen since my first post graduation job. Many of these people have been there for 10+ years and instead of whining about how "so and so is the boss and nothing will change", I hear comments about (task) ownership, taking responsibility, and dedication to a job well done.

The offices are clean, well maintained and functional, but not extravagant. This goes for everyone and the boss doesn't have a mahogany desk and plasma TV just because someone appointed him King. The temperature is kept within normal, which is better than it was in private industry where the "executive" areas were kept comfortable while everyone else was at 80F or higher in the summer and 65F or lower in the winter, usually because the equipment wasn't operational and they would duct all the working air to the "executives". And yes, we turn off the lights when rooms are not occupied. The state offices have their equivalent of the executives too and the employees know the importance of keeping them satisfied, just like in private industry. It is just seems that they are given a more equal consideration instead of being treated like royalty.

While there are undoubtedly exceptions to every rule, base upon my experience, this bashing of the govt employee is not valid.

 

[hjgoldstein]

You want to be rewarded for your own hard work and quality. Own the darn business. This is the only true way you will be rewarded for your hard work. You can also be the one responsible for rewarding your employees thus having a loyal workforce to count on.

This seems to be a little self-contradictory. On the one hand, you say that the only way to get proper reward for your efforts is to own the business yourself. Then on the other hand you say that your employees' loyalty will be gained by giving them proper reward for working for you.

You would, according to the first part of your post, be the only employer out there to properly reward your employees. %-)

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

 

[tnphoneman]

I guess I just did not word it correctly. Some are just not cut out to run their own business and I can respect that. My point was that if you don't like something, like others have said, get off your back side and do something. I treat my employees very well. Yes if you truly want the rewards you think you deserve then own the company. Some will just never be satisfied. I have been in Gov't offices behind the scenes installing phones and have found many a person sleeping. Never saw this in the private sector.

I own my own business and am very proud to do so. I too worked for many years as an employee and it never seemed enough. I make less now but I am a whole lot happier.



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[KE407122]

I left the private sector. As a technologist, I was frequently at loggerheads with sales. In order to remain in telecommunications I had to take care of an end-users best interest, namely protect them. Since the early eighties, interconnect salaries had fallen well below that of the larger incumbent vendor/carriers and I had a wife and two children to support. IT/Telecom can be transient field for many of us and I was tired of being hired by a GPW (Great Place to Work), only to see them become living hells; usually unexpected and overnight.







KE407122
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