We have a person in the company who created brochures for many divisions of the company. One of the supervisors of a division wanted a copy of his brochure and asked a network admin to get the file. Since the admin felt the brochure was really as much the property of the division supervisor as the one who created it, he gave the file to the division supervisor. Now the one who created the brochure feels that the admin violated his privacy. The company policy states “no expectation of privacy on the network” but the brochure creator feels there has been an ethical violation. Any perspectives from others would be appreciated.
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations Rhinorhino on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Administrator Ethics
- Thread starter hfmmhp
- Start date
SantaMufasa
Technical User
In defense of the author's reactions and feelings, I suggest that obtaining files from "non-public" storage devices, albeit network-accessible, without prior consent/advisement of an author is generally rude, poor form, and unprofessional.
Having said that, U.S. case law supports the company policy, especially if the policy explicitly states, "...no expectation of privacy on the network..." Additionally, case law sides with company ownership of any creative work that derives from use of company resources (i.e, computers, memory, disk, printers, et cetera) to develop that work, by company employees or its agents, unless specifically excluded by written agreement by a company representative authorised to profer consent in behalf of the company.
In the future, if the author wishes to affirm retained ownership of her/his creative works, s/he should create the work with personal resources on personal time, at least use accepted "common-copyright" designations, and advise the company to explicitly add the work to their Human Resources jacket under a section entitled, "Personal works for which the employee retains ownership and control." (I have had several titles listed/protected in my HR jacket that I created prior to, and even during, employment relationships.) If an author wishes to create such a work of retained ownership, they should contact the company's legal department and agree and document ownership and appropriate company use prior to any development of creative works.
So, in the absence of such documentation, the brochure author probably needs to cool her/his jets. This would also be a good time for the company's legal eagles to reaffirm the company's policy on "creative works", in an e-mail to all employees.
Cheers,
![[santa]](/data/assets/smilies/santa.gif "[santa] [santa]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
@ 06:29 (04Feb05) UTC (aka "GMT" and "Zulu"),
@ 23:29 (03Feb05) Mountain Time
Click here to Donate to Tsunami Relief. 100% of your contributions here go to the victims...0% to administration.
They were "The First-Responder" to the disaster, with relief deliveries arriving before Red Cross and U.S. aid.
Having said that, U.S. case law supports the company policy, especially if the policy explicitly states, "...no expectation of privacy on the network..." Additionally, case law sides with company ownership of any creative work that derives from use of company resources (i.e, computers, memory, disk, printers, et cetera) to develop that work, by company employees or its agents, unless specifically excluded by written agreement by a company representative authorised to profer consent in behalf of the company.
In the future, if the author wishes to affirm retained ownership of her/his creative works, s/he should create the work with personal resources on personal time, at least use accepted "common-copyright" designations, and advise the company to explicitly add the work to their Human Resources jacket under a section entitled, "Personal works for which the employee retains ownership and control." (I have had several titles listed/protected in my HR jacket that I created prior to, and even during, employment relationships.) If an author wishes to create such a work of retained ownership, they should contact the company's legal department and agree and document ownership and appropriate company use prior to any development of creative works.
So, in the absence of such documentation, the brochure author probably needs to cool her/his jets. This would also be a good time for the company's legal eagles to reaffirm the company's policy on "creative works", in an e-mail to all employees.
Cheers,
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
@ 06:29 (04Feb05) UTC (aka "GMT" and "Zulu"),
@ 23:29 (03Feb05) Mountain Time
Click here to Donate to Tsunami Relief. 100% of your contributions here go to the victims...0% to administration.
They were "The First-Responder" to the disaster, with relief deliveries arriving before Red Cross and U.S. aid.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
A couple of points come to mind.
Why did the division supervisor ask the administrator for a copy and not the author? Or maybe the supervisor did, and the author politely said no, or not yet? Was this still a work in progress?
I appreciate company ownership and the no expectation of privacy, but given only what is provided in the original post, I cannot condone the administrator's action. Using the administrator to obtain copies of files should be more of a last resort and there is insufficient information provided to know if that's the case.
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Why did the division supervisor ask the administrator for a copy and not the author? Or maybe the supervisor did, and the author politely said no, or not yet? Was this still a work in progress?
I appreciate company ownership and the no expectation of privacy, but given only what is provided in the original post, I cannot condone the administrator's action. Using the administrator to obtain copies of files should be more of a last resort and there is insufficient information provided to know if that's the case.
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Leaving aside what the brochures actually cover & what their distribution is ultimately to be (internal/external/board level only etc) We have here a person employed to do a specific task - produce a brochure for a division.
Seems fair enough, after all, this brouchure was produced for the division
Why?
As has been mentioned, why not ask the author?
I personally can't see an ethical problem - company network, company time, divised for the company by a company employee ....... all I can see here is lack of communication, possible back-stabbing and an admin with a possible bad call.
Other than being a division supervisor, were there any other reasons given for wanting the brochure .... would HR or Senior Management have given permission???
Just my 2c's worth !!!!
<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>
I think the person who created the file has no reason whatsoever to be upset. The files are not his property, they are company property and the company can give them to anyone it chooses to give them to. While I agree it might have been nicer to directly ask for them, there is no reason the admin should have not given this file. It is clearly not a privacy issue as a brochure would not have social security numbers or other company info which must be kept private.
Questions about posting. See faq183-874
Click here to learn Ways to help with Tsunami Relief
Questions about posting. See faq183-874
Click here to learn Ways to help with Tsunami Relief
CajunCenturion
Programmer
So where do you draw the line?
Suppose the brochure is an attachment to an e-mail between the author and the author's supervisor. Can the division manager now make such a request and expect the admin to deliver the document? It is still all company owned: company equipment, company document, company e-mail addressess, no privacy info in the documents.
What is the difference between the document stored as a corporate attachment on a corporate piece of e-mail between to corporate addresses, and the document being stored in a corporate directory on a corporate server?
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Suppose the brochure is an attachment to an e-mail between the author and the author's supervisor. Can the division manager now make such a request and expect the admin to deliver the document? It is still all company owned: company equipment, company document, company e-mail addressess, no privacy info in the documents.
What is the difference between the document stored as a corporate attachment on a corporate piece of e-mail between to corporate addresses, and the document being stored in a corporate directory on a corporate server?
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Again, the question is, it the responsibility of the administrator to deliver the document to the division manager?
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
sleipnir214
Programmer
I intuit that there's information we haven't been given.
While I agree with SantaMufasa's take on intellectual propery policies, whether the division director had the right to demand that the administrator retrieve the document is a matter of internal policy in the company.
I think it would be the responsibility of the administrator to deliver the document to the division manager. But only in the case that there existed no other way to access the document.
But if the circumstances allowed me to play the game, I would tell the division director that a request of that nature must go through the chain of command in the company.
The author of the work, I think, may have been reasonably expected to be irritated by all this -- forming a more sure opinion will require more information. But I think he or she has misdirected his/her anger. The administrator was acting as an agent of the division director.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
While I agree with SantaMufasa's take on intellectual propery policies, whether the division director had the right to demand that the administrator retrieve the document is a matter of internal policy in the company.
I think it would be the responsibility of the administrator to deliver the document to the division manager. But only in the case that there existed no other way to access the document.
But if the circumstances allowed me to play the game, I would tell the division director that a request of that nature must go through the chain of command in the company.
The author of the work, I think, may have been reasonably expected to be irritated by all this -- forming a more sure opinion will require more information. But I think he or she has misdirected his/her anger. The administrator was acting as an agent of the division director.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
I can see this from both points of view. I can see why the person who created the document was upset. I'd be pissed if someone had an admin give them a file I created.
However the admin shouldn't have done it without the ok from the author. Even with the "no privacy" clause in the corporate policy, the document might not have been ready for distribution. The admin should have referred the requestor to the documents creator. What if that document had confidential information in it that the requestor didn't have access to for a reason? The admin would now have violated policy by giving info to a person who wasn't suppose to have it.
The admins aren't there to override a users lack of access to someone elses folder. They are there to keep the systems up and running, and ensure that people that don't have access to stuff don't get access to stuff without the creators or companies approval.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
(My very old site)
However the admin shouldn't have done it without the ok from the author. Even with the "no privacy" clause in the corporate policy, the document might not have been ready for distribution. The admin should have referred the requestor to the documents creator. What if that document had confidential information in it that the requestor didn't have access to for a reason? The admin would now have violated policy by giving info to a person who wasn't suppose to have it.
The admins aren't there to override a users lack of access to someone elses folder. They are there to keep the systems up and running, and ensure that people that don't have access to stuff don't get access to stuff without the creators or companies approval.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks for the input. In an attempt to not be too wordy, I guess I missed some important detail.
The brochures were originally created and distributed a year ago. This division supervisor wanted to distribute more at this time (supply ran out) and the author was no longer required to do this type work as part of his job and couldn't be bothered to even forward the file on to the division supervisor so he could just print them off. Clearly company property. The division supervisor went to the network admin for suggestions. (Scan old copy, re-do it all, or other suggestions.) The admin told me (his immediate supervisor) that he just figured getting the original file was the simplest way to get the job done. The admin first contacted the author and was blown off with "I can't be bothered to take the time to give him the file." So at that point, he got the file off the server for the division supervisor. My boss has informed the author that it was company property - cool off and relax, but he seems to have raised enough stink so that I have been challenged to study and review our ethical dealings/policy with server-based files. That's why I am seeking other admin opinion.
It's only your opinion, but it IS YOUR opinion and I thank you all.
The brochures were originally created and distributed a year ago. This division supervisor wanted to distribute more at this time (supply ran out) and the author was no longer required to do this type work as part of his job and couldn't be bothered to even forward the file on to the division supervisor so he could just print them off. Clearly company property. The division supervisor went to the network admin for suggestions. (Scan old copy, re-do it all, or other suggestions.) The admin told me (his immediate supervisor) that he just figured getting the original file was the simplest way to get the job done. The admin first contacted the author and was blown off with "I can't be bothered to take the time to give him the file." So at that point, he got the file off the server for the division supervisor. My boss has informed the author that it was company property - cool off and relax, but he seems to have raised enough stink so that I have been challenged to study and review our ethical dealings/policy with server-based files. That's why I am seeking other admin opinion.
It's only your opinion, but it IS YOUR opinion and I thank you all.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Now that we know the rest of the story, then the admin did the right thing. No ethical problem at all.
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
However, if the admin had gone to the author's supervisor (maybe his own supervisor as well) and informed them of his actions, and the steps he was going to take to resolve the issue, perhaps the "stink" wouldn't be as large.
I do agree that there is no ethical problem.
Susan
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." - Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson (1894)
I do agree that there is no ethical problem.
Susan
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." - Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson (1894)
sleipnir214
Programmer
I agree, no ethical problem with the behavior of the administrator.
The ethics of the brochure author's behavior, however, is another story.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
The ethics of the brochure author's behavior, however, is another story.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Under the fully disclosed circumstances, my belief is that the original author needs a definite attitude adjustment. In my opinion, the only ethical question is whether 1) to give the author two-week's notice or 2) to have him clean out his desk and have security escort him from the building.
With so many unemployed professionals out there with great work ethics and great attitudes, your apparently self-important and pampered author had better watch his back.
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
@ 22:32 (04Feb05) UTC (aka "GMT" and "Zulu"),
@ 15:32 (04Feb05) Mountain Time
Click here to Donate to Tsunami Relief. 100% of your contributions here go to the victims...0% to administration.
They were "The First-Responder" to the disaster, with relief deliveries arriving before Red Cross and U.S. aid.
With so many unemployed professionals out there with great work ethics and great attitudes, your apparently self-important and pampered author had better watch his back.
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
@ 22:32 (04Feb05) UTC (aka "GMT" and "Zulu"),
@ 15:32 (04Feb05) Mountain Time
Click here to Donate to Tsunami Relief. 100% of your contributions here go to the victims...0% to administration.
They were "The First-Responder" to the disaster, with relief deliveries arriving before Red Cross and U.S. aid.
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
I agree, no problem here with what the Admin did.
The origional author needs a major aditute adjustment.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
The origional author needs a major aditute adjustment.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
Sounds more a case of office politics than an ethical issue.
Problem wouldn't exist if the original documents had been archived for general access/reference.
Keith
Problem wouldn't exist if the original documents had been archived for general access/reference.
Keith
![[bigcheeks]](/data/assets/smilies/bigcheeks.gif "[bigcheeks] [bigcheeks]")
- Status
