a realistic opinion of Illustrator

[mezzi5]

Hi, I am not trying to start a flaming match or program war.

But would like some honest opinions.

I have been using dtp and design applications for the past 10 years. I have the same amount of experience in the design and print fields.

I have used and become well versed in Photoshop, Indesign, Quark, Freehand, Acrobat, Coreldraw as well as
a plethora of RIPs, imposition programs and to a much lesser
degree and more out of personal interest; 3D applications
and although not linked to graphics I use music programs deemed to have 'difficult learning curves' (eg) Logic Pro, Cubase, Audition - The list goes on.
-all of the above on both *Mac* and *PC* platforms.

Why....

does Illustrator remain the most user unfriendly program that spawns 'what the heck were they thinking' when trying to do *anything* in the said program - over 10 years of loading it fiddling around with it for hours and then realising i've accomplished at worst nothing and at best a very complicated way of doing something relatively simple!!!
I have spent countless hours watching Lynda videos, online tutorials etc about Illustrator.

Does anyone ever feel this way about Illustrator or are there really people out there that sit back relax, smile and truely produce artwork 100% IN ILLUSTRATOR that is 1) easily accomplished, 2) easily reversed if necessary by a prepress operator without destroying the entire document or requiring an advanced degree in astro-bio-physics 3) faster, more efficiently and more effectively than say the same thing in (eg) Freehand (fill in your vector program of choice here.)

Any thoughts? And again I really really would love to *use* Illustrator so this is not a flaming match.

Have I always had the wrong end of the stick about Illustrator? Is it purely geared towards people with graphics tablets who want to 'draw' in a program that is
more for fine artists than technical graphics personel?
For crying out loud you can make 3D objets similar to
dedicated 3D programs in Illustrator.
This is an example of the frustration I get with Illustrator.

 

[jmgalvin]

I've been using it for an awful long time and have had few problems. It seems to get the job done for me.

I do think that people sometimes find an app they really like, as many loved Freehand, and when forced to use something else get angry at the app because it does things differently. I have that bugaboo with Word and, especially, Excel. Back in the pre OSX days I had Clarisworkes/Appleworks and always got my stuff done faster than with Word and Excel.

I was also one of the maybe 5% who preferred Pagemaker over Quark. When Indesign 3 came out, it was much closer to pagemeaker (and Illustrator) so I was more comfotible with that than Quark.

Using OSX 10.3.9 on a G4 & G5

 

[eugenetyson]

I can do pretty much anything I need to do in Illustrator. I find it very flexible and very user friendly. I have Corel and I hate it, I've used Freehand and I hate it. I guess it's just preference.

 

[jimoblak]

I get the feeling that someone learned CorelDRAW or Freehand prior to learning Illustrator. We typically gravitate to and prefer the app we first learned.

 

[eugenetyson]

Yeh, because I love Ms Word. It's the shizzle.

 

[Pixelchik]

OMG - I absolutely LOVE Illustrator. And yes I can produce a complete artwork file solely in Illustrator depending on what I am creating. I was a previous user of CorelDraw (and occasionally still use it), but since I use InDesign and Photoshop on a regular basis I find using both native illustrator and photoshop files that will eventually be placed in Indesign work better together. I found illustrator EASY to learn since I had already been using vector-based apps like CorelDraw and Freehand. The ONLY thing that CorelDraw does better than illustrator is creating extruded/3d-looking text, and also that you can easily make multi-page vector documents with Corel and you can't with Illustrator.

 

[mezzi5]

) fair enough everyone that replied...I have decided to unload everything except the adobe suite so now i have to use illustrator - and in some cases combinations of indesign and photoshop for vector work.

Time wise for designs i still believe illustrator is clunky and time consuming.

With all the negativity out the way...
will update after forcing myself to use it for 1 month.

 

[jimoblak]

Why unload anything? You can still run any licensed software that gets the job done.

 

[eugenetyson]

mezzi5 (TechnicalUser) said: "and in some cases combinations of indesign and photoshop for vector work."


Huh? Use Illustrator for vector work. Photoshop for Raster work. And InDesign to combine them.

You can't output a vector Illustrator file from Photoshop. Any vector smart object is rasterised on output. It retains the native dpi of the file. So if you make a 300 dpi photoshop file and use the vector logo, it will rasterise to 300 dpi on output, similarly if you make the file 72 dpi, the vector will be 72 dpi on output. Even with a PDF the vector is rasterised. Very frustrating thing, as it's very misleading in the documentation.

 

[mezzi5]

hi Jimoblak: its a way I've always learnt programs and havent really tried with Illy. If I dont have Freehand to fall back on then I can only use Illustrator.

Absolutely Eugenetyson. Regardless of output, Photoshop
still allows for creation of .ai workpaths and paths which
can be exported (.ai or eps) to indesign/illustrator hence the
"and in some cases ... photoshop for vector work.

 

[eugenetyson]

Fair enough, I just thought you were thinking of putting illy files into photoshop and then into indesign, which doesn't retain vector data on output. But absolutely if you export paths to illustrator and all that.

 

[mezzi5]

Jimoblak, the reason I need to learn this program is I know I've missed two excellent job opportunities due to not knowing Illustrator as well as I should. All the ads cited Creative Suite as a must with photoshop, indesign and illy being the 3 biggies. Personally I can't say I can use a program at an advanced level when I know I can't.

I'm using creative suite cs1 and am thinking of upgrading to cs3. I have read good things about Illustrator CS3 like the inclusion of a control panel which mirrors all the currently selected tool functions - this is missing from previous versions as far as I know. And larger nodes and easier to edit bezier curve control. One review even said these two features were worth the +/-US$599 (not upgrade cost) price tag alone :-o !!

 

[jimoblak]

Keep in mind that whether any of us prefer Illustrator or not, it is the most commonly used vector app since it is in the CS. Freehand is doomed now that Adobe owns two vector apps. It is unlikely that you will see schools or employers trying to maintain Freehand licenses beyond their current usefulness.

In regard to the feature and UI differences of FH and IL: Keep in mind that many of these differences are due to patents held by Macromedia and Adobe. Remember all the lawsuits that they volleyed against each other in the past? There were some instances where they were obligated to be very different programs. Now that Adobe owns the IP for both, it is likely that the best features of both apps can be rolled into a future release.

 

[mezzi5]

it is likely that the best features of both apps can be rolled into a future release."

sounds great

 

[ERIXWORX]

I have used Corel, Freehand, and only then was I introduced to AI. I find it is better than Corel for various reasons, and the ease of use is greater than Corel.
examples...
-same outline as fill color (or vice-versa)? Simply drag the fill color into the outline color box
-need to move edges of several objects at once? just use the node selection tool to grab all the nodes you need and drag/move all at once.
-there's more, but it's quite the can o' worms!

*HOWEVER...
Why doesn't AI catch on to the one thing that I like in Corel? When chosing a font, Corel shows the text you have selected and changes it as you move down the font list, so you can see what it will look like without having to select the font.

(NOTE: Self-taught AI user; I may not know the best way to do something, but get good results)
'There is no LEASH LAW for the IMAGINATION!'
myspace.com/erixworx

 

[mezzi5]

One months hard learning with Illustator CS3 and it still comes up with the dialog box "i'm trying to be a 3D application but keep doing your 2D work bud."

So far I'm liking the live effects and have learnt the power of the appearance palette. Symbols are great. The pen/drawing tools along with the pathfinder make a potent combo. Next to learn are the mesh tool, blends and gradients!!

I've got a feeling I'm in for a hard time with the die hard Illustator users As civil as possible and I still like Illustrator - onwards with the learning......

-same outline as fill color (or vice-versa)? Simply drag the fill color into the outline color box

Corel: select object, click on desired fill/outline colour. Left click = fill, right click = outline. No need to drag anything anywhere (although you can if you want to). I'd say illustrators z command is quicker within illustrator to change selection of fill/outline keeping the mouse hovering over the swatch palette.

-need to move edges of several objects at once? just use the node selection tool to grab all the nodes you need and drag/move all at once.

Only difference is to hold shift while selecting with shape tool to grab multiple points in corel and generally is more forgiving that you dont select background objects by mistake taking up valuable time. Corels bezier funtions are far superior to illustrators in terms of line-curve, curve to line, smoothing and general manipulation of curves/paths to make them do what you want to do without the line going higgelty piggelty all over.

-there's more, but it's quite the can o' worms!

 

[mezzi5]

Sorry meant x to flip fill/outline in illustrator.

 

[mezzi5]

I've found it helps to do a lengthy read up on adobe transparency handling to give a good idea of how documents will print given some of the complex designs Illustrator is capable of. Although this is true for indesign, photoshop, illustrator and acrobat.

 

[jmgalvin]

One thing I've found is that an awful lot of work done in AI - pure vector - is relatively clean, simple stuff without a lot of fancy work.

Look at things like cereal boxes, big company logos, signs, etc and most are relatively simple with little use of transparency, filters, etc.

Maybe it's just me, but that's all I really run into (and I do a lot of logos and pure vector eps stuff). I assume the same would go for other vector apps.

Using OSX 10.3.9 on a G4 & G5

 

[ERIXWORX]

By making the fill color the outline color, I mean that you go to the toolbar and drag the fill color to the outline color space, or vice-versa; takes less than a second; click, drag, done! Basically, drag either one into the space of the other.
have tried to link pic of draggin the fill color into the outline color, but suck at the whole html thing.

-E

(DISCLAIMER: Self-taught AI user; unorthodox methods w/good results)
'There is no LEASH LAW for the IMAGINATION!'
myspace.com/erixworx