A Cancel Order is a Sales Opportunity?

[Glenn9999]

What do people think of the trend I notice in companies these days (especially made light of with America Online since they made the rounds doing that) of hard selling people who are interested in cancelling service or accounts into not doing it?

Any experiences with it, either on the user end or as a sales rep? Personally I've noticed it to become an increasing trend with most any service-oriented business (cable, satellite, phone, internet, etc). Very annoying too.

For those that are interested in a summary of what this practice is:

Someone leaked the AOL training manuals involving this practice. A summary along with the link to the full text:

http://consumerist.com/consumer/exclusive/aol-retention-manual-revealed-188005.php

A recording of someone attempting to cancel an AOL account, illustrating the practice (June 13, 2006). Mainly, this person broke the AOL rep's taught script. Evidently the person was a tech, and "recording for quality assurance purposes" worked both ways on this one:

http://www.break.com/index/aolhell.html

AOL has gotten into legal trouble with Eliot Spitzer, the NY attorney general for this, and reached a settlement in 2005. I haven't read anything indicating a movement on it, but I get the feeling this recording that made national TV is going to put AOL back into trouble.

 

[Glenn9999]

The Reuters story on what I mentioned at the end of my first post.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2

 

[mrdenny]

Back in the days I used to work for a major ISP in tech support. When customers would try to cancle the Customer Service group would say anything that they could, and offer them anything they needed to in order to get the customer to stay. They would then transfer the call to us in tech support so that we could fix what ever the problem was that the customer service person had promissed that we could fix. Unfornitually for the customer service reps we were allowed to transfer the calls back to them directly, or to there supervisor. We were also the only tech support reps with the ability to go in and cancle the customers account or selves if we so desired (and no they didn't get there bonus if the account was cancled).

The part that really sucked was the customer service would spend like 5 minutes lying to the customer and got a bonus of like $5 for each customer that was salvaged. US tech guys got no bonus for spending 2-3 hours fixing the calls.

One call that got tossed over to me sticks out in my mind.

The first was a customer who was moving out of the country to a country that we didn't have service in. The customer was transfered to me, very confussed as to what had just happened. He explained to me that he was moving from the US to Europe and needed to cancle his service as it wasn't going to be of much use to him as we had no dial-up numbers in Europe. He said that he had no idea why he was talking to a tech support person. I offered to transfer him back to the supervisor of the customer service rep that he spoke with so that he could get his account cancled.

The official policy was to do what ever was needed to keep the customers. Within reason was not part of the official policy. This was the policy of the customer service department, not the tech support department where I worked. The good thing about the policy was that if the Senior Tech support rep that the Customer Service salvage agent transfered to customer to call customer service back and said to cancle the customer's account that was it. The account was to be canceled on the spot.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000) / MCTS (SQL 2005) / MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005)

--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)

http://www.mrdenny.com

 

[Glenn9999]

Yep...that's what most companies seem to do. AOL takes it to the absolute extreme. Not surprising, since I understand AOL is much like what you described, and even to the point that a "retention queue CSR" gets fired if they don't get a certain % of saves.

Speaking of the absolute extreme, here's another example of the ethics problem surrounding this practice:

http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/top/aol-wants-to-sell-"internet"-to-the-dead-182185.php

I've read several stories like this of AOL refusing to cancel accounts of dead people.

 

[Gooser]

BellSouth tried this with me.

First they wouldn't cancel my account:

...but I'm moving to Seattle...we can offer you an account credit...no, send me a check...

month later

...I cancelled my account and still haven't received a check...your account is still active...I canceled my account...your account is still active...Okay, close my account...I can't do that, please hold...(wait 15 min.)...hello bellsouth, can I help you?...yes, I canceled my account a month ago, yet you are still billing me...your account is still active...close my account...you have to send us a check for what you owe...What I owe!?-I closed my account...your account is still active...(hello, is there anybody with a brain there)-I called and closed my account a month ago...it shows your account as active...I moved 3000 miles away, let's just say I haven't been using it...but your account is still active...Okay then close it, and make it retroactive by two months...I can't do that, let me get my supervisor...(wait 7 minutes)...hello, bellsouth?...yes, hi, I canceled my account a month ago, yet you are still billing me...it shows that your account is still active...okay, listen to me. I closed my account a month ago and moved 3000 miles away, out of your service area. I don't care if your computer doesn't reflect that. close my account and send me a check...but you owe us money for two months of service...no, I closed my account...(typing on other end of phone, plus some huffing and puffing)...okay we can offer you a service credit...I moved outside your service area. SEND ME A CHECK...I'm not sure we can send you a check, I have to clear that...(long pause)...we can go ahead and credit your account...send me a check!...let me transfer you to billing...NO. Mother-#-)-ER. You will send me a check. If you want to talk to billing, you go right ahead. I am getting off the phone and I will be expecting a check. Good bye.

month later

...hello bellsouth...

 

[Spirit]

Gooser,

In the sake of sanity let it go!

However, if it was me keep at it lets start a revolution!

Bellsouth are they part of the same company as NTL?

(Uk people will get that joke!!!)

Iain

 

[zeitghost]

As in NTL hell...

The company that managed to keep the previous user of one of my phone lines in the phone directory for 5 years...

Had to complain to Ofcom in the end to gee the buggers up a bit.

Still get the odd call even now.

But at least Mr Evans isn't listed against my number any more... )

 

[Gooser]

Anytime I get a wrong number, I tell them, (s)he's in the shower with <random name of opposite sex>, can I take a message?

 

[zeitghost]

I had a letter from an insurance company the other day.

For the previous occupant of my house.

Who moved out in 1998.

And died 3 years ago...

 

[RCorrigan]

NTL --- HA ..... don't get me started.

They screwed up my billing somewhat - sending me bills for what was set up for Direct Debit ..... 17 phone conversations later "We are not billing you twice, - OK, I accept that, but can you get your solicitors to stop writing to me demanding money - but the account shows as not being paid - BUT it is being paid - but the account shows that it's not being paid - is that the DD or the paper bill - it shows that the account is not being paid - but my bank shows it IS being paid so can you stop with the treatening letters - but the account is showing as not being paid - ARGhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

I took the letters , bills and proof that I was paying by DD to their head office ----- "we can't accept payment here - I don't want to pay anything, I would like someone here to see that it is being paid automatically and to call off the solicitors - but the account is showing as not being paid - OK, you can see that on your screen, please look at this documented proof that my bill is being paid - I can't do that, I'm not part of billing - OK, can you get someone from billing -- if you'd like to call Customer Services on ..... - ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

I cancelled my DD, returned the letters in an (unstamped) pre-addressed envelope, and enjoyed free cable (3 boxes) till I moved nearly 18 months later !!!!!!!!!

<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[Gooser]

I don't know if it is the design of their billing systems, or just 'nature-of-the-beast' but more and more companies are billing twice, billing extra, etc. Whenever I call someone on it, they (customer service) says they don't know anything about it, talk to billing. Billing doesn't know anything about it. I just quietly cancel and enjoy services for free.

--Gooser

 

[gbaughma]

I've got an issue that I've been dealing with since 2001. It just re-surfaced again.

The long and the short of it:

I got a call from a cellular company (and it happened that I was looking for a cell phone at the time), a pretty good price, and an "add-a-line"... so I told them sure, go ahead and send out two of them.

They arrived, but the phone numbers associated with the phones were long distance (totally out of my area code even!)

So, I called them up, and they said "Oh... we're just out of local numbers. Call us back in 2 weeks." I did, got told the same thing. I did, and the 3rd person says "Oh, we don't have any numbers in that area code." I stated "Then cancel the phones if you can't give me a local number. You guys marketed an area you couldn't support." The support rep said "OK, and I'll mark your account to waive the early termination fee, since we couldn't give you a local number."

Well, I just got contacted by the *fourth* collection agency, trying to collect $400 termination fee. I just faxed them all the letters that I had sent to the last 3 collectors over it..... <sigh>

Sad part is, not one of the collection agencies have responded when I have contacted them with the reason that I am challenging the collection... they just "go away" for a year, until a new collection agency picks it up. Not a single one has bothered responding to my written correspondence.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Thargy]

Folks,

so that our colonial cousins on the far side of the pond 'get' the NTL joke (which sadly isn't) I feel obliged to attach the following url

http://www.geocities.com/antryan2000/ntl.html.

It is a defining document typical of the company. I too have been an NTL customer, and am doing my best to dump them ASAP.

Regards

Tharg

Grinding away at things Oracular

 

[Tarwn]

Bellsouth sent me to collections two years after I paid my final payment. The collections agency marked my credit 1 year later for me being in collections. At the time I was younger and more naive and was past the due date when I could get a copy of the check from the bank, plus the collections agency told me I couldn't challenge it and that I couldn't prove lack of contact (did I mention no bills or letters, despite address forwarding?), so I ended up paying it.
So Bellsouth got extra money out of me and blackened my credit. And thats not counting all of the troubles I had with them while I was a customer.

 

[ecobb]

BellSouth is evil, that's all there is to it. They have hounded and harassed me for years, not about collections, but just telemarketers in general. At one point, I was literally getting 14 calls within a 12 hour period from them. I told them to take me off their list, they doubled their efforts in calling me. I finally dropped BellSouth because of the relentless telemarketing calls (and I told them that's why I was dropping them). It didn't stop. I'm on the (US) Federal Do Not Call list, an I receive NO telemarketing calls from ANYONE except BellSouth. I dropped them over a year and a half ago, and they still won't stop. Now when they call, I tell them that I'm reporting them to the FTC (which I do) and if they call again I'll press harassment charges (believe me, I've got the documentation to support a case!). This usually stops them for about 2-3 weeks, then they start back under a new telemarketing firm name.

I can't imagine how bad they would be if it was for collections!


Hope This Helps!

ECAR
ECAR Technologies

http://www.ecartech.com

"My work is a game, a very serious game." - M.C. Escher

 

[gbaughma]

Well, as long as we're sharing nightmares... here's one that happened to me.

Out of the blue, I got a letter from a lawyer one day, that they were seeking a $5,000 judgement against me for an accident I was (supposedly) in back in the early 90's. Well, I've never been in an accident.

SO... I call up the law firm, explain to them that I wasn't in an accident, but I'd like a copy of the accident report.

I get the copy of the report, and it was a hit-and-run, in downtown Chicago... the driver was driving a large maroon Lincoln, and was black. A witness mis-read the licence plate number.

So, I called the lawyer back, and faxed him a copy of my driver's license (proving that I was caucasian), along with a photo of my car (A silver honda civic), showing the license plate (proving that I still had them, they hadn't been stolen, etc.)

Well, the lawyer laughed about it, said obviously they got the wrong guy, don't worry about it, etc.

I think it's all resolved, until one day I get a letter from the State of Minnesota informing me that my driver's license was being cancelled, because of an unsettled judgement against me in Illinois. **THE SLIMEBALL LAWYER TOOK IT TO COURT AND GOT THE JUDGEMENT ANYWAY**.

So.... I called up the law firm again, and of course, got nowhere. So I decided to take it from the other direction. I called up the CLAIMANT'S insurance company (the ones who hired the law firm, which happened to be State Farm). I explained the entire situation to them, faxed over the letters I had sent to the law firm, more copies of my driver's license, the copy of the accident report, etc. etc. I additionally pointed out to them that the lawyers purgered themselves, *knowing* that I wasn't the perpetrator, so that they could collect their fees for going to court. So they law firm screwed not only ME, but also screwed State Farm. That got them boiling....

Well, they called another lawyer, and went and got the judgement reversed, then they called the State of Minnesota and got my license re-instated.

I thought it was done and over with.

Until I went to renew my Minnesota Driver's License, about 3 1/2 years later.

It was denied, because of a judgement in Illinois (Same judgement....) Illinois made the phone call to clear up my license, and faxed over a copy of the judgement reversal, but never included a certified copy to the state of Minnesota. So... License denied AGAIN.

SO... I call up State Farm again... but now, the case has been closed, and the file has been mothballed somewhere in a storehouse in Texas.

A couple of weeks later, they get the paperwork. But Illinois has to send it to Minnesota. I offer to fax a copy of the reversal to Illinois, but they inform me that *they cannot accept a fax... it has to be brought in IN PERSON to the DMV in downtown Chicago*.

I informed them that I was well over 500 miles away, and **NO DRIVER'S LICENSE!** thanks to them, and how was I supposed to get there? They said "That's not our problem" and hung up.

So.... I call State Farm again. The lady I'm sobbing on the phone to at this point informs me "Oh, I work downtown chicago... that office is only a few blocks away." She walked it there on her lunch break, and stood there to make sure they were going to clear it up in Minnesota. It was finally resolved, and my driving record and the judgement is all clean again. But what a GOD AWEFUL nightmare, over:
o A mis-read license plate
o A case of mistaken identity
o A slime-ball lawyer
o A backwards DMV that makes you deliver original copies of documents in person.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[GwydionM]

'Mind-Tugging' should be a specific offense, punishable by fines. Wasting someone's time trying to get them to change their mind and give you a sales opportunity.

1000 irritated non-customers and one who's talked into it means a nice commission for the pushy sales-person.

------------------------------
An old man who lives in the UK

 

[Grenage]

Wow, Greg. I think your personal nightmare is a hard one to beat!


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[flapeyre]

Greg:

Complain about the slimeball lawyer to the Illinois bar association.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!