4 pair protectors 5

[mikeydidit]

I have another weird one. I have to run 4 pair cables to our 5 gas meters. This will allow our provider to dial up the meters and get the usage off them.

I have a plan that I would like to run by you guys to see if this is the best way to do it.

Most of the cables are going to be ran from the closest closet to the wall by the meters. I plan on using Inside plenum rated cable to the wall. (some of these I am going to have conduit ran to) I would like to install a small 6x6x6 or 8x8x8 plastic weather proof box inside and pipe to the outside and install another one on the other side of the wall. Basically back to back through the wall with a piece of pipe between the two. I want to install a 4 pair protector inside and run a outdoor rated cable from the protector to the meter.

These cables are going to be hardwired to the meter and the cable will be exposed.

I haven't been able to find a little protector that I can use for this that is rated for cat 3.

Any ideas and thoughts are welcome.

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[mforrence]

You don't need a "cat 3 rated" protector - you need an analog station protector (generally 235V). Since you're not going far outside of the bldg, you really only need secondary - but if you get a combo primary/secondary, you're better off. You can buy classic plastic NID type box with protector built in - probably your easiest bet.
Mike

 

[mikeydidit]

You can buy classic plastic NID type box with protector built in.

I think the combo will be what i need Mike. Can you recommend one for me. I don't usually deal with cables with this small of a count going outside. Also would I need to run a ground rod and wire to the outside for this??

Thanks for the help.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

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[Servamatic]

Mike
Just how far are the cables running outdoors?

You may not be required by code to install protectors, typically gas meters are up against the building wall, this would certainly be well under the 140' allowed by code.
It would also fall under the protection zone.

Not sure what version of the code you are using, but in 2005-2008 it would be 800.90

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

The outdoor side of these will be like you are thinking, 10 to 15 feet. But i am more concerned about a lightning threat back into my PBX. That is why I am looking into some sort of protection.

The gas company is using a little protector/hardwired jack inside a weather proof box then it connects to a meter. But this cable is exposed once it leaves the outside of the building.



When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

Understood, not trying to talk you out of it if you are set on installing, but under your circumstances protectors would not be required from what I can gather.
That close to a building you should be protected by what is called a cone of protection, meaning lightning should not be an issue, although some disagree with that theory.
Check this page for a little help.

http://www.furse.com/elp/lpov.htm

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

As always, I appreciate you trying to "steer me right" Richard, as i have a tendency to need it from time to time.

I guess i am just paranoid from my past. When I stated here in telecomm 23 years ago nothing was protected. Nothing.. Yeah their switch took a lightening hit because of it too. Good thing i was a lot younger then. I have spent three days straight here trying to resolve alarms that would "just appear." Remnants from the switch (a 18 cabinet Dimension 2000) being hit with lightening. These alarms (processor suicide mainly)happened as often and as random as it wanted to. A lot of sleepless nights..

In 1993 I got a new switch (V1 G3R) and probably went overboard on grounds, but I haven't taken a hit since.

So as you can imagine grounding cables that are exposed to outside has been a major peeve of mine.

Now that you have a little better feel for why I am wanting these, will it hurt to do it?? I'll add it just for peace of mind. LOL. I am not as young as I used to be and need my sleep a lot moree these days Richard..

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

Clear as mud now my friend....
It can never hurt to be protective. By all means if you feel it best.
Since I don't know how your bean counters work, just wanted you to know the requirement.
I would certainly install them if you have a history of lightning strike issues.
You should be able find what you are looking for here:

http://www.itwlinx.com

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[alamtnman]

I found some protectors that should work at :

http://www.sandman.com/surge.html

They had several varities.

electricity like water will flow the path of least resisantance so make especially sure you have a good source/connection to ground on your Pbx side. a protector alone without the ground will be useless.

 

[robertjo24]

PolyPhaser has a nice series of protectors that might work well for this type of application. It is their IX series. They come in an aluminum case, and you can pack them with multiple single pair protectors and bond them to your grounding system.

Certainly worth a look.

http://www.polyphaser.com/productdata.aspx?class=ix

 

[mikeydidit]

Thanks for the help guys. I am feeling better about this now. I am getting our electric shop to run conduit for these and I just added a ground rod be installed as part of their project.

The little protector i decided to go with is the Surge Gate Cat5-235. 110 punch down in and out so it will work great for what I am trying to do.

Now I have to call Berk-Tek for a 4 pair cable that will hold up outside.. But thats tomorrow..

Thanks again.


When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[mforrence]

So close to the building, you're MUCH better off to BOND to the existing building ground vs installing your own ground rod. Put the protector inside the bldg, not at the meter.

Mike

 

[SYQUEST]

I agree with mforrence' previous post. You want to bond to the same system so "everything" stays or is elevated at the same "level" if/when lightning strikes. When you have system voltage differences, that is when more damage can occur. You want to minimize the damage.

Also, if you did not bond an added ground rod, that may be a considered a code violation, especially with the gas piping.

....JIM....

 

[mikeydidit]

Would bonding to the building steel be considered a good approved ground for this??

Thanks Guys..

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

Mike
Whatever you do, all grounds within a building must be bonded to a single source. You cannot have 2 separate grounds for a single building, that WILL cause problems for you and as mentioned be a code violation. You would be creating a difference of potential between the two.
Buidling steel is ok so long as it is continuous back to the source, but i would verify that and/or run a bonding conductor back to the main electrical ground.

I know Commscope had a very good Cat 5e OSP 4 pair years ago, but I would imagine most manufacturers do today.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

Wow is about what sums up my research on grounding for this. I have made quite a few calls this morning about how to do this. Several of these calls are to PE's one master electrician and two were to electrical engineer's.

I was told three different ways to do it.

1. The building ground was Ok because it was bonded back into electrical main. This is bonded back with a rod in the ground and a cold water pipe.

2. The ground rod was Ok by itself because the impedance would be much less than using a building ground. Also one of these is a steel building. He said "Using the building ground would be tying this to a lightening rod."

3. Install a ground rod and bond it back to the building steel. This is what we are going to use.

I also found one company that is a "grounding and bonding specialty" company.

http://www.harger.com/techinfo/specs/dcgb.cfm

For some good info should anyone need it. I spoke with one of their engineers about this. Good guy and tried to help.

The folks at

http://www.itwlinx.com/

also have a great technical support group and have staff electrical engineers to help should you have questions. Thanks for the link to these guys Richard. They speak highly of the grounding classes given by Harger BTW.

Mike and Jim thanks for pointing out possible code violation. I think this is straight now.

All and all it's been a good day so far. I got to learn something today..

Thanks again for the help guys.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

I should have steered you to Harger, Mark Harger and I sit on the BICSI grounding and bonding committee together and he is top notch when it comes to this issue.
Mark is a proponent of building steel and we have attempted to make it a primary bonding method but have not been successful as of yet. The opinions on this are varied and strongly held by some.
Glad you got the right info.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net