2003 Server upgrade question

[clintblack]

I have a situation I am investigating at work. Basically, we have a couple different domains set up. Among them, we have an NT Server domain which we are trying to eliminate altogether. However, on this old NT domain, we have a print server/file server set up as a BDC. This is the main print server and we can't take it offline too long. We are first going to upgrade the motherboard on this machine. Once that is done, we are going to upgrade it to 2003 Standard Server, join it to our Windows 2000 mixed domain and "possibly" make it into a 2003 Standard domain controller since this mixed domain currently has only one DC. We have about 80 users and we want this upgrade to be as painless as possible without denying users to this main print server and the files contained within. We haven't decided on how exactly we are going to do this. I just want input on the safest and simplest way to do this. We have tested this scenario on another old NT BDC from the NT Server domain and ran into a few problems. For one thing, we can't get it to join the 2000 mixed domain because it is a BDC for the old NT domain. Second of all, we can't get this PC to unjoin from the NT domain. We thought that we might be able to get it to transfer over if we shut off the PDC on the NT domain, then promote it to PDC and upgrade it to 2003, but we can't seem to get ahold of DCPROMO. Apparently, you can do demote this for a price if you buy Upromote. We probably won't be doing this live either. It will more than likely be done on a weekend. Do anybody have any suggestions?

 

[pgaliardo]

Reaching back for my NT 4.0 knowledge here. If I rememeber, the only way to make PDC's and BDC's back to member servers was to reinstall NT 4.0. I never tried to join an exising 200 domain from an existing NT 4.0 PDC, but my guess is, it would have to be demoted to a member server first.

 

[pagy]

So you have an NT domain and Windows 2000 domain on the same network? Is that right?
And with this NT4 server you are going to upgrade the motherboard and then you want to upgrade it to 2003 standard and then join it to the 2000 domain and "possibly" make it a DC?

You say you have 80 users, which domain do your users currently log into , the nt4 or the 2000 domain?


All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure.
- Mark Twain

 

[pagy]

I think you are right pgliardo. I believe you had to re-install to get an nt4 server back to a member server but it was so long ago now and my memory gets worse and worse as days go by

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure.
- Mark Twain

 

[teqmod]

You are correct in the having to reinstall to makea NT4 BDC a member server. Once it is promoted to BDC it is done.

I have never tried to *upgrade* a NT4 BDC to 2k3 AD controller before, not 100% sure it is even possible. The best I could recommend is to note all of your current printers, take the machine down for the upgrade, do a fresh install using the same machine name as before and adding it to the AD. Next just add all of your printers back. Anything on the old NT4 network would use WINS to get to the print server so if you update this machine with the same name in the WINS database this could theoretically work for those NT4 users. With only 80 users reconfiguring the users to use a new print server in AD would not be very difficult either if you had to do it.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

You cannot add an NT4 system to your domain as a BDC. AD mixed mode will replicate user information to NT4 BDCs that are already on the network, but you can't add more NT4 BDCs. You can add more 2000/2003 DCs if you like.

You CAN demote an NT4 xDC to a standalone workstation which can then be joined to a domain. It's not built in and it's not free, but you CAN do it.

http://utools.com/UPromote.asp

This question was originally posted here:

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296825

Others may want to read that thread for some added information. (In my opinion).

Now, I do think clint has given a better understanding of the environment in this question, so here's my comments:

Issue. This is a file/print server. Any demotion from it's current domain will lose ALL permissions of the files and printers. You will need to reset permissions on all folders.

My recommended solution:
1. Install Virtual Server or Virtual PC or VMware. Install a server running on a virtual machine, running 2003 Server.
2. Perform a FULL BACKUP on the NT4 server. Also, save HKLM\CurrentControlSet\Services\LanManServer\Shares registry key so, if necessary, you can reimport the share information on the server later.
3. Make sure the NT4 server is using Service Pack 4 or later (NTFS Issues that may develop later if an earlier service pack is used; frankly, I think it's foolish not to be running SP6a on NT4).
4. Use the Print Migrator (below) to migrate printers to the virtual server (or do it manually; if the name must remain the same, fine, change it AFTER you have migrated the printers and SHUT DOWN the NT4 server.
5. Buy a new set of hard drives (setup RAID 1 and DO NOT format/upgrade the existing drives, especially the one(s) running NT4).
6. Swap out the motherboard as you plan, install the two new hard drives running a RAID 1.
7. Install Windows Server 2003 FRESH (not an upgrade).
8. Join the server to your domain.
9. setup your file shares (if you had a lot of file shares, you can make sure your drive letters match the old server and import the registry setting mentioned earlier to restore the shares or you can carefully edit the .reg file and change the drive letter).
10. Use the Print Migrator tool to restore the printers to the server.
11. Power off the virtual server. (Asssuming this works - which it should - you'll never need it again).
12. Rename the newly rebuilt 2003 server
13. Make the new server a Domain Controller by running DCPROMO (ONLY if you do not have a second domain controller already, and if you don't make sure you do this last!

Related Links:
Print Server Upgrade, Migration, and Interoperability

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/techinfo/overview/printservmigration.mspx

Print Migrator 3.1

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...25-CBC9-44DA-B2C9-FFDBC46B0B17&displaylang=en

 

[markdmac]

For those that have been speculating, you can perform an upgrade from NT4 to Windows 2003. This is the preferred migration scenario when you need to preserve the exisitng SAM or need to keep existing systems online.

I don't recommend that for this situation since we are talking about a resource domain being decommisioned and since NT4 has the 4GB system partition setup. Typically this is done using what is called a Swing Server or temporary server. I wrote the prescriptive guidance on this topic for Microsoft, detailed steps for a print server migration are available on Microsoft.com, search Microsoft.com for the Small IT Solution.

According to MS there is no problem with an upgraded system, but every tech I know including myself prefers a clean install.

To add to lwcomutings migration scenario, on number 2 be sure you VERIFY the backup.

Using PrintMig seems to work fine for most scenarios but this may be a good time for you to consider renaming any printers you may wish to. A common downfall of many new admins is thinking that they need to keep all names the same, be it printers, shares or servers because they fear having to visit every workstation to update them. This is not necessary.

You could as an upgrade path do all of the following and achieve the same results as with what lwcomputing has suggested.

1. Backup the NT4 system and verify backup for disaster recovery.
2. Replace the motherboard.
3. Perform a fresh install of Windows 2003, wiping out the existing partitions. Make sure you add SP1 and all current hotfixes.
4. Join the server to the domain and if desired run DCPROMO to make it a DC.
5. Configure all the printers on the server and share them.
6. Use a vbscript login script to configure all the printers for the users without visiting a single desktop.

Half the steps and you eliminate the possiblity of any legacy system "contamination." (before anyone jumps on that, I am not implying that any harm could be done, only that this is a good time to redesign rather than be limited by the former setup).

You can see how easy it is to deploy the printers via vbscript by reading my FAQ on the subject.

faq329-5798

I hope you find this post helpful.

Regards,

Mark

Check out my scripting solutions at

http://www.thespidersparlor.com/vbscript

 

[clintblack]

Okay. So you guys are suggesting that I simply back up the NT4 system, replace the motherboard, perform a fresh install of 2003 with current hotfixes, promote it to a DC, then configure the printers and run scripts to configure everything else. The fresh install is not happening according to my supervisor. WAY too risky. My supervisor and I are not very script savy either. But I'll show him your script page and see what he thinks. Thanks for the help anyway, guys. You gave it a valiant effort.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

Read over my last post and recommended solution - if you did it this way, the risk is minimal.

Step 4 sets up your printers on another server BEFORE you take down or do any major upgrades. So your protected there.

Step 5 involves using two NEW hard drives - so when you remove the old ones (and the old motherboard) you are starting fresh. If something doesn't work out, you just put back the old drives and old the motherboard - and you're back to where you are. This is not a terribly risky procedure unless you have the three stooges working on it.