turns out the telco had a problem on the atm - frame switch and was improperley shaping traffic for my network.
i had asked them several times in the past why i was having problems, and they repeatedly told me that there was a problem on my end.
after spending a heck of a long time...
i recently (12/20) had a frame relay circuit provisioned for a remote site (56k) circuit.
i have never used frame relay before. telco said i was all provisioned, i set up a cyclades
router and a used adtran dsu iq on site. icmp packets work from router and then set up a couple of freebsd...
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