I'm interested in knowing what IP-PBX products are available for 20 - 60 employees. I've looked at Cisco's UC560 for up to 138 users but it seems like it is overkill even for 60 employees. The UC320W/UC540W max capacity is 24/32 users. Avaya IP office is expensive (sorry Avaya! I like you but you are pricey)

Who is hitting the 30 - 60ish market?

Take a look at Samsung & E-Metrotel

Emetrotel with the UCx product is definitely the way to go in my book. If you bleed Nortel blue, you should definitely check this system out.

You can use everything from Nortel Unistim phones to any manufacturer of SIP phones on this system. I have one set up for my small telecom business and I have Nortel: 6 11xx Unistim phones, 2 11xx SIP phones, 1 Meridian M7208, and 1 T7316, 1 i2050 working on my laptop set all working on this system. I also have 1 Cisco 7970 and 1 Avaya 9630 SIP set working on the system as well. I also have 6 remote users on the system spread out throughout the USA and one person in Prague. The remote user feature is quite simple......set up an external IP address on the system and simply connect any Unistim phone and have a good network, and you are set. Its usually as simple as plugging a Unistim set in and the phone comes up.

Licensing is quite simple. You can start out with a 5 license system for half the cost of a BCM, and that includes all the features and functionality Unified Messaging, Call Recording, Conferencing, IVR, Find-me/Follow-me mobility, Unistim/SIP phones, Paging, Park, Transfer, Music on Hold, Enhanced CLID, Personalized button labeling, and Nortel CS1000/BCM fashioned features.

One thing I find quite fascinating about the UCx is the fact that the system acts as hybrid between a traditional Nortel Key (Norstar/BCM) and PBX (Meridian 1/CS1000) system. One frustrating thing I felt about Nortel in the past was that the Norstar/BCM systems acted independently from the PBX Meridian 1/CS1000 sets. The UCx works like a CS1000 no matter if its a 5 user system or 5000 user system.

The system is designed by Nortel alumni who used to work in everything from CS1000 to BCM/Norstar to Networking with Bay Networks.

I definitely recommend this system for a high end, low cost IP PBX solution that actually allows you to use digital Nortel phones as well!

Joe

I've never met anyone as enthusiastic about Nortel! Thank you for the info; I will definitely check out the product (even though I've never been a Nortel fan, although anything is possible :)).

Hey Really,

Yeah I am quite the Nortel guy, probably the biggest fan who never even worked at Nortel. I guess it's the way they packaged their equipment, both in shipping and the actual designs of the units. The equipment of course always functioned to my liking......

How come you've never been a fan of Nortel? Maybe this system can change your mind....

Also if you don't want to run Nortel phones on it, you don't have to. You can use any SIP device such as a Cisco or Grandstream SIP phone.

I am happy to answer any other questions you may have or anyone on here has.

Good evening!

Joe

KX-TDE 100/200/600 OR KX-NCP 500/1000

www.thetelephonemanonline.com

My company would quote a Mitel 3300 CXi...but E-MetroTel is a good affordable platform from a company based in Plano, TX.

Jim

"If I had known it would turn out like this, I would have became a locksmith" Albert Einstein

NCSS NCTS NCTE CS1000E
Mitel 3300 4.2 basic & advanced, 5000 4.0, NuPoint I&M 4.2

Allworx is a great product easy to manage and install, really should look at them

Hey there Really -

This is just from a user perspective. Careful consideration should be made in every case as there's "no single answer". Phone systems are complicated! - so take your time! And look VERY carefully on how much you intend to grow. It could be that if you outgrow your system, you'll wish you spent a little more up front. Conversion is painful!

As a user who recently went through the process, we found (for our needs) that Avaya IP Office over SIP trunking was the way to go. Avaya's software is great, and it has a good upgrade path if you're growing. And, we were able to save money by buying "Unused" Avaya phones through our vendor. These are new sets that are left over from large bulk purchases - say, a large customer ordered 3000 sets but only used 2800. The extra 200 are still brand new in sealed boxes. Since phones are a major part of the entire system's expense, these saved us a lot of money. If your vendor will allow it, maybe you can order "unused" sets for 1/3 off (more or less). We were happy we could get some basic sets "unused" - (availability might be hit or miss - but it's worth asking!)

Be sure to look at total cost of ownership over a period of years - annual maintenance, licensing, upgrades, etc. Some of that stuff can eat you alive. And it wasn't long before I ruled out "cloud" (hosted) services; sounds like you're already there.

Nortel - problem is since the Avaya merger, many question their products' future. As for Cisco - the ones we looked at had limited auto attendants, limited features, clunkier software, and the shorter 3-5 year product cycles (that Cisco seems to like) would've been hard for us to afford (and keep up with). Also their systems don't seem to play as well with others - so (in our case) they wanted to replace lots of our existing network equipment with Cisco gear (extra expense and complexity).

Allworx is very interesting but it's not for everyone; in our case it never made it to the final round. And we didn't look at the other vendors mentioned above; they might be worth a look for you.

Good luck in your search. Again, the above comments are just from a single user's perspective - and YOUR needs are what's important! But I hope this helps!

also look at toshiba cix40 and 100 depending on how many users / lines you want configured with it.  

We are an avaya and toshiba vendor and usually toshiba comes in a little cheaper in the 30+ phone quotes

Verticals Wave is another product to consider. We don't use it, but we use it's predecessor, Televantage. It 's getting some serious upgrades later in the year.

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

Allworx is another

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curlycord
www.curlycord.com

asterisk/FreePBX is another incredibly flexible & robust option! Probably 1/4 the cost of Cisco with a similar feature set - and no licenses! (unless you want to use the G729 codec, that's $10 per channel)

-----------------------------------
Telephone & computer wiring/Cat 5E/Cat 6/Fibre Optic cabling in Calgary, AB

You need to start with the basic questions

1. Do you need IP sets or can it be digital if you have the wiring in place or even analog for some sets (IP sets need PoE and the network needs to be good as well as the cabling needs to be ok and that will add to your cost) I know that IP sets are the "way to go" these days but they do not make sense in every environment.
2. Do you need a mixture of these set types to accomplish your optimal goal
3. analog trunks, PRI or SIP or more than one of these types.
4. call centre functionality
5. Voicemail, basic or more advanced

If you are looking for full IP and lots of features then look at a small company named Scoptel based out of Quebec Canada, they have a system that bases on teh Asterisk system but you get the full support of them should you have problems and they are nice and small and you can even ask for features if there is one missing. All endpoints are SIP based and you can use any SIP phone you can buy on the market, cheap or expensive.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS

http://convergednetworks.ca

If you are looking for a good one, try Ozeki PBX. It works well and you can import the
configurations from the former system.
Look here:
http://www.ozekiphone.com/what-is-ip-pbx-internet-...
It can handle that 30-60 well, we use the same, perfect.

these fly by night no name pbx companies give me a headache

if the end users only knew the trouble they were getting themselves into

cannot even count how many we have taken out this year

I hear you. It's the spend $1000 to save $10.

Phoneguy, who are these fly-by-night no name companies you are referring to?

Allworks have been going close on a decade.
Vertical (formally Artisoft) have been going since 1982,
Samsung? Toshiba? Mitel? Panasonic?

Yes there are a couple of newbies in there, but so is Microsoft, are they no good either?

I've come across people who have had major issues from the big boys machines. It's not usually a case of how good the system is, but how good the installer (and maintainer) is. With the smaller players you often get to talk to the proper techies (i.e. those that design and build the systems) and not some 3rd line script monkey. They also listen to what the customers want, not what the business thinks you want.

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

we are a toshiba dealer and samsung, panasonic, mitel,and shoretel are definitely players and i would not consider no name.

Allworx i have seen and have not heard of any issues...

i am talking about the systems no one has ever heard of but the guy installing it and has been around for a year or two

they cant even give you a night service button

and i am talking from experience. When nortel went under, my company gave many of these devices a shot. Each failed miserably.

They are all just variations of freepbx

basically my rule of thumb is, if i have never heard of it before, i stay far far away

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

Hello,

Our organization is looking to move from our old workhorse, the Rolm 9751 Model 10, to a VOIP system. I am the company IT guy and phone tech. I have some questions I hope will fit well with this thread. Other PBXs I have experience on are the NEC Electra elite, AT&T Partner II, and the Samsung OfficeServ 7400.

My first and most important question is this: Can VOIP phone systems do a Page All / Intercom to all other VOIP speakerphones on the system at the same time? (no over head PA speakers available, not an option for us)

In case of emergency at our facility, we would like to pick up one phone and Page All / Intercom to all stations at the same time and give them verbal instructions over their speakerphones, without anyone having to pick up their phones. Ideally, If this can be set up in groups by building, then we can pick up a phone and let's say there's a safety issue in the lab, we can just Intercom to all the phones in the lab and tell them to leave the building, or lock doors and stay put, etc.

If this is easy to accomplish with current systems, which brands of VOIP systems can Page/Intercom to all other phones on the system, and is this feaure already built in without having to buy 3rd party equipment or software. We also cannot install overhead PA horns or speakers, I know some PBXs have a PA out to Page using overhead horns, unfortunately we have too many buildings to be able to wire that and install PA amps etc.

On my current system, the Rolm has a COM_GROUP feature where if you are member of the group, one can pick up a phone, and intercom direct to any other member of the group, without them lifting the receiver, but it is a 1 to 1 call, not 1 to All.

Here are some specs on what we have now and some questions about VOIP as I am completely new to it.

Layer 2 switches and VLAN setup for a VOIP system
We have a pretty big computer network here, all HP Procurve Layer 2 switches, a Layer 3 core, but pretty much 1 default VLAN and everyone one the same subnet making for a big flat network. I've started to tinker with the VLAN options on my switches, I believe I have to have the VLANs in place and all ports documented before I get a VOIP system. I also have some POE switches, but not many, do most of you have a customer go all POE or do some opt to use a wall wart with each phone? If anyone can speak to this and give any pointers or any pro tips so I can avoid headaches please let me know from your experiences.

T1 channel bank / how does that plug into a VOIP system?
Current phone lines come into my Rolm PBX as a T1 broken out to 24 analog channels, and a T1 (non PRI) going right into the Rolm which does DIDs and some inbound and outbound calling. Do the VOIP systems of today have a way to bring our 24 analog lines into their cabinet? Are there cards that fan out to an amphenol cable and over to a 66/Krone block so I can cross connect to my telco handoff? I'm pretty handy with a punch down tool, but VOIP to me is a whole new beast, so I dont know how things plug into a VOIP cabinet/system.

WiFi VOIP telephone sets:
If I have some courtesy phones in lobbies right now, and only a phone outlet and no ethernet in the lobby, are there WiFi enabled VOIP phones that would work with the rest of the VOIP system? Would that also require a seperate SSID/VLAN on my access points just for the phones?

3 port switch built into phones / VLANs
I understand that some VOIP phones, or is it SIP phones (what's the preferred name?) have 3 port switches on the back, are those managed so I can set different VLAN tags on them? If I have a room with 1 ethernet outlet and need to have a computer and VOIP phone there, I would want to use the switch built into the back of the phone, but only if I can separate the traffic so PC and phone data are not on the same VLAN.

class of service on VOIP phones
Do VOIP phones carry with them their Extension number, so no matter where they plug into the network the Extension follows them? I know in a traditional PBX, a port on the PBX is hardwired to a physical location and any phone that plugs into that location becomes that specific extension number, on VOIP I would imagine that the extension number is programmed into the phone or is somehow tied to it's MAC Address.
Can a VOIP system have class of service to an office phone can dial local, long distance, but a lobby phone can only dial extension to extension and local and 911?

Lastly, and thanks for taking the time to read this and answer any of it that you can, I'm used to a PBX having a dedicated proprietary cabinet, are VOIP systems like that as well, or do they run off a computer tower and it's more or less the software that does all the work? (Sorry if these are "duh" questions, but I'm totally new to this technology, so I'm sure you guys get these "newbie" questions a lot.)

Thank you for your help, sorry for the long post,

Squelchtone

I couldnt find a way to edit my post and I totally forgot to mention, we have 150 Extensions, 50 of which would need to be display phones, 100 of which just regular plain jane phones, but all 150 need to have speakerphone function.

Thank You,
Squelchtone

check out the IPO page all is not a problem. I know they make wifi cordless phones, but they are pricey. T1 is very simple to setup with the IPO. VlANs and all that good stuff is no problem

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

I'll do a few brief answers:

My first and most important question is this: Can VOIP phone systems do a Page All / Intercom to all other VOIP speakerphones on the system at the same time?
Yes, but check that your vendor supports it.

Layer 2 switches and VLAN setup for a VOIP system
Yes you do need VLAN'ing and QoS. You can get away without it if your backbone is fast enough, but at some point it will bite you in the ass. Firewalls and routers are often the weak point. We use a mix of kit, where PoE switches are available, wonderful, makes like so much easier. If not wall warts or PoE injectors. You can get rack mounted multiport PoE injectors, but they are pricey, almost as much as a new switch.

T1 channel bank / how does that plug into a VOIP system?
Depends on the system, some have built in TDM buses, otherwise a MediaGateway is required. I highly recommend Audiocodes kit for this. We have 5 year old Mediant 2000's that still sit there ticking along.

WiFi VOIP telephone sets:
Yes you can but they drink batteries. Our solution is DECT phones with a ethernet base station. Polycom do some of these as well as Panasonic (well they used to)

class of service on VOIP phones
Yes it's no different to a normal phone. You create an account with the relevant permissions. You then set the phone up for that account (many systems will auto-configure the phone for you). This is the BEST feature of VoIP system. You can take a phone to a different location, plug it in and it will carry on working. We usually configure the phone then send it to site. So long as they have a live network, they will work. The downside is some don't grasp the concept so they move to another branch (without telling IT) and wonder why they still get calls for the old site.


However I'd look at getting someone in before you buy the kit to test your network. VoIP is brilliant, unless you have a underperforming network, then it will be your worst enemy.

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

Thank you guys for taking the time to reply to my post. We will be checking into your recommendations as far as making sure our network can handle VOIP to begin with, and then we'll take it from. In case I didn't mention it, we have 150 stations, and would like to keep the total cost of implementation down to 100-200K I understand that if the phones cost $300 each, then just our 150 phones sets is already $45,000, how much does the cabinet usually cost, and what's an average cost for an implementer to come in, IF the vlans are already in place?

Thank you and have a good weekend,
Squelchtone

That is one hell of a budget.....room for network improvement too.


This
http://www.williamsglobal.com/picturesnews/REDBOX-...

Plus Polycom sets IP550

Approx 20K installed

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curlycord
www.curlycord.com

only advice is stay away from the no name stuff.

Especially with a site with that many users. One can get away with it in a 5-10 user enviroment. You get what you pay for.

When all the tried and tested system prices come in between 50-60k and some guy comes in saying he can do it for 15-20k with a system you have never heard of RUN! lol you do get what you pay for

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

We put in a Cisco CallManager system back in June...CDW did all the implementation. It's 2 UCS servers with everything virtualized, along with a 2911 router serving as the gateway for T1 and paging connections.
We have over 100 phones and it works well. The administration takes a bit to learn, and is definitely more time consuming than the 3Com NBX we replaced. Everything is integrated with our Active Directory as far as users/extensions go.
Since we had VOIP before, our network was pretty much ready...Cat5e everywhere with POE switches.

jeff moss