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1DMF (Programmer) |
13 Apr 12 12:08 |
I thought I would share the latest application specification I received from my boss, as I'm sure you could do with a good laugh.  Yup, he took a photo with his mobile of a wipe board he designed the application on with the office manager and sent it to me via email as the specicication for a new application they wanted building. So what specifications do you get from you boss or client? "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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 2ffat (Programmer) |
13 Apr 12 12:16 |
Love it! Quote:So what specifications do you get from you boss or client?
They say, "Just do it" since they rarely know what they want. As a result, I constantly tweak programs and reports to do or show what they expect. James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229! |
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Quote (CajunCenturion):They say a picture of worth a thousand words, but then again ...
A thousand words, yes, but most of those can't be repeated in mixed company.  |
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Build a quick strawman application from the specs. Then, when it doesn't do what they wanted, you will at least have something tangible for them to specify more cleary what they do want. (Just tell them that the App Version 1 was what you got from their Spec Version 1.)  Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
"People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel." |
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judgeh59 (IS/IT--Management) |
13 Apr 12 14:16 |
My favorite has been... "That's exacting what I asked for, but not what I wanted" ick........ Be Alert, America needs more lerts |
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kjv1611 (TechnicalUser) |
13 Apr 12 15:59 |
1DMF, That's hilarious! Well, it's all to common with many areas of tech support, application support, etc. Of course, sometimes the best ideas come from scratching stuff out on white boards. But then you need to be able to explain it in the end, rather than just say "here you go." I know folks here at work like it, so I've began to make it more of a habit in some meetings. And while I'm at it, have a little fun with it. "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57 |
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DataDog (TechnicalUser) |
13 Apr 12 16:29 |
When I ask for Report Specs, they say, just get to work, we'll know what we want when we see it! That's when I tell them "I write Crystal Reports, I don't have a Crystal Ball." DataDog 
If God wanted us to count in Hexadecimal, then why did he only give us A fingers? |
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Perhaps I shouldn't admit that I have more than a few pictures of whiteboards on my phone.
But they are relatively rare compared to the pictures of things sketched on Starbucks napkins. |
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I think it has something to do with football
sam
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"Make it do whatever we want it to do." Alice on RequirementsI hated methodologies and deliverables until I started dealing with the Masters of Scope Creep TM. It's fun to watch people stammer and bleat "That isn't really what we wanted!" when I show them a copy of the requirements document that they signed. Specifications? Pshaw. Just make it work. -------++NO CARRIER++-------
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1DMF (Programmer) |
13 Apr 12 21:09 |
The ironic thing is I guess , I finished the first beta of the application yesterday and although it looks nothing like they designed on the wipe board, it functions exactly as they want it to. As you say, CC a thousands words is better than a picture and so I had to call a meeting so they could explain WTF that was they send me in the email! There was a reason I sent myself back to school and the designing applications with Visual Basic course via the OU I took last year, looked nothing like that when providing a specification for a new GUI! No qualification can prepare you for real life application development, especially when your boss seems to be a fan of Lowry! "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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1DMF (Programmer) |
13 Apr 12 21:44 |
I thought I would add some perspective regarding the OU course I took. This is an actual answer I provided to an assignment question when requested to provide a GUI specification.  Can any one spot the similarity? "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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I once got a "specification" for a "web interface" that was similar to the above, only it was written/drawn on a Greggs paper bag using black marker pen!!!!!! (For non-UKers) "Greggs" are a high street bakers/purveyors of sandwiches, sausage rolls and pasties. There's nothing quite like dealing with professionals! Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
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1DMF (Programmer) |
16 Apr 12 5:11 |
Does anyone get a proper specifications? Are the specifications I get from my boss typical? I'm curious as to where reality lies between industry and academia in general. "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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In my experience I have too often "Yes, this is what I asked for, but that's not what I want. Re-do it." scenario. And another approach that happens way too often: Users ask for an application, or a piece of a bigger application, and 'hide' important information, or give me just a small part of the 'truth'. I don't know why – maybe they assume I know their jobs and I do know all the important details about their jobs? And even if I do ask questions, they only give me the 'minimum' answer, never the whole picture. But I am not in the business of 'stealing' what they know, I am not in the competition with them. Believe it or not, I am trying to help them, and they fight it all the way. There was a situation where a part of the program should take – the most - a few months. During that time we had a lot of meetings about it, and in each and every meeting I found something new I have never know or heard about. And it all related to the program. It was like dragging out national security information or details of Area 51 (which does not exist, of course - wink, wink...  ). To complete the program, it took over 4 years! Fighting all the way. Anybody knows: why? Have fun.
---- Andy |
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Quote: It was like dragging out national security information or details of Area 51 (which does not exist, of course - wink, wink... smile ). To complete the program, it took over 4 years! Fighting all the way.
Oh dear [deity of choice], How uncannily familar that is. And on specfications and product delivery. http://pages.uoregon.edu/ftepfer/SchlFacilities/TireSwingTable.html Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
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1DMF (Programmer) |
16 Apr 12 9:20 |
Quote:In my experience I have too often "Yes, this is what I asked for, but that's not what I want. Re-do it." scenario.
If they are capable of analysing what you provided is what they asked for, why didn't they ask for what they wanted? I guess in that respect I've been lucky, they may have trouble articulating what they want, but they do seem to know what they want so at least what I deliver they are happy with. Well hold that thought, we are about to go live on wednesday with the first version of the above application, so I'll let you kow if it actually delivers what they were expecting  "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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Quote:If they are capable of analysing what you provided is what they asked for, why didn't they ask for what they wanted?
That is a $40 000 question. If I ever find the answer, I will let you know.... Have fun.
---- Andy |
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You could take the approach I sometimes adopt, which is to start by writing a spec that contains details I can work with and which reflects what I think they are after. Then I email it to them and say, this is what I will be working to unless you say otherwise.
I don't always do that - it is not worth it if it takes as long as doing the job would.
However that strategy applies to all kinds of jobs, not just apps, so I quite often find it useful.
Tony |
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Quote:If they are capable of analysing what you provided is what they asked for, why didn't they ask for what they wanted?
Usually because they don't actually know what they want until you give them what they asked for, then they realise that is not what they wanted in the first place. Then of course, when you have figured out what they meant to ask for, they realise that there was some "things" that they forgot to mention earlier that it ABSOLUTELY must be able to do. We was asked by one client to look at developing and building a monitoring, event tracking and secondary safety system for a steel track rollercoaster. The brief was, "We just shipped a ride from Japan and need a few more sensors fitting and something to stop the following cars", UK safety regs would let it run with two cars, one tracked (out on the rails) and one loading but it was designed to run with three, one tracked, one on the run in and one loading. Simple enough, we thought, as we had done a couple of ride controllers before, that was until we found out it that the coaster in question was "Knightmare" at Camelot. All 2600 feet of track and 80ft gravity drop of it. But we got to ride it a few times and walk the track while "serveying"  Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
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We "was" ????? I really should make more use of the "Review post" button. Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
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1DMF (Programmer) |
17 Apr 12 6:14 |
was / were , if that was the only thing wrong with a specification request, we would all be laughing! "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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tcsbiz (Programmer) |
17 Apr 12 10:47 |
I think the problem with users not telling us what they truly want or need is that they don't know how. We speak and think differently than the users do. We are technical and they are not. It is our job to know the difference and ferret out what they really need. I have received specifications in photos, on napkins, envelopes, and even someone's hand and arm. We joked that he had to give us his right arm for the project. It can hilarious and frustrating. I keep trying to do something about my procrastination but I keep putting it off until tomorrow. |
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Most often, user specifications come (at best) in the form of how the users imagine the application will look, versus what information they need to store. From a high-quality data model, Rapid-Application-Development software can often build a working copy of the application. IMHO, a good data modeling professional is worth 10,000 good application specifications. Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
"People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel." |
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Once I followed a written spec to the T. I knew I would have to redo the whole thing, which I did, but I wanted to make a point that they should read what the Business Analysts wrote down. It was probably the worst point in our entire working relationship. They kept saying that wasn't what they meant, and I kept pointing to the spec where the screen function EXACTY as written. From that point on I put on my user hat whenever I design anything. The spec is more a general guideline of what data to collect. Lodlaiden You've got questions and source code. We want both! |
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gbaughma (IS/IT--Management) |
19 Apr 12 13:43 |
See, this is why I try to start with the end user. I will sit there with the person who is going to be using the software, and draw what the screen will look like... and what the output / results will look like. That gets them vested, very few re-designs or reworks. :) Just my 2¢
"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."
--Greg http://parallel.tzo.com
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gbaughma, Exactly. My sample was for an outward facing website. I knew it wouldn't make it through QA. For any internal dev, i have a very similar motto as yours. You've got questions and source code. We want both! |
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1DMF (Programmer) |
20 Apr 12 4:45 |
gbaughma, I usually find that works best also. Get the user involved, make them feel the software is for them, that it's about helping them, and that it will work the way they want it to. You get far more enthusiasm and better communication between you and the end user and it's usually far mor productive with less 'back to the drawing board' moments! The problem lies when the boss sends you photos as above for a new applicaiton they just dreamt up and they haven't even employed the person that is going to using the software! We went live with the new app yesterday and apart fom the usual 'oops' stupid mistakes (forgot to link a table - lol) and a date format issue (dd/mm/yyyy instead of yyyy/mm/dd), it seems to be working as intended. Even though the one they got using it wasn't involved in the development nor were they meant to be! "In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."
"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
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(3) philhege (Programmer) |
25 Apr 12 17:52 |
ChrisHirst, here's what I believe is the original of the Tire Swing Story. -------++NO CARRIER++-------
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1DMF (Programmer) |
27 Apr 12 16:32 |
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I just got this same kind of white board spec this last Friday. The only difference is that it had been written a couple weeks ago and since then, people have been writing other notes and diagrams around and within the "spec". I would post it, but I don't want to leak any proprietary scribbles. |
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1DMF (Programmer) |
1 May 12 4:57 |
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Sweet Jeebus, I've got one of those. Fortunately it's been retired. I kept a copy as a specimen of how NOT to solve this problem. It's a single SQL query, but it is 1,556 lines long. CODEINSERT INTO FBC_RPT
SELECT
DECODE(DIST,'AT','AT','AN','AT','LA','LA','NC','NC','NV','NC','SD','SD','IV','SD') MARKET,
CYDATE,
BILL_CYCLE,
DECODE(RMR_IND,'H','HOME AIRTIME','C','PASS THROUGH ROAMING','R','SWITCH ROAMING','F','SWITCH ROAMING') CALL_CATEGORY,
'01) NUMBER OF ACCOUNTS' HEADING_NAME,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'RE',ACCT_CNT,0)) RE_TOTAL,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'WH',ACCT_CNT,0)) WH_TOTAL,
'HM' SUM_TYPE,
' ' SUM_LEVEL
FROM FBC1
WHERE RMR_IND = 'H'
AND CYDATE = '&&2'
GROUP BY
DECODE(DIST,'AT','AT','AN','AT','LA','LA','NC','NC','NV','NC','SD','SD','IV','SD'),
CYDATE,
BILL_CYCLE,
DECODE(RMR_IND,'H','HOME AIRTIME','C','PASS THROUGH ROAMING','R','SWITCH ROAMING','F','SWITCH ROAMING')
UNION
SELECT
DECODE(DIST,'AT','AT','AN','AT','LA','LA','NC','NC','NV','NC','SD','SD','IV','SD') MARKET,
CYDATE,
BILL_CYCLE,
DECODE(RMR_IND,'H','HOME AIRTIME','C','PASS THROUGH ROAMING','R','SWITCH ROAMING','F','SWITCH ROAMING') CALL_CATEGORY,
'02) NUMBER OF PHONES' HEADING_NAME,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'RE',SVC_CNT,0)) RE_TOTAL,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'WH',SVC_CNT,0)) WH_TOTAL,
'HM' SUM_TYPE,
' ' SUM_LEVEL
FROM FBC1
WHERE RMR_IND = 'H'
AND CYDATE = '&&2'
GROUP BY
DECODE(DIST,'AT','AT','AN','AT','LA','LA','NC','NC','NV','NC','SD','SD','IV','SD'),
CYDATE,
BILL_CYCLE,
DECODE(RMR_IND,'H','HOME AIRTIME','C','PASS THROUGH ROAMING','R','SWITCH ROAMING','F','SWITCH ROAMING')
UNION
SELECT
DECODE(DIST,'AT','AT','AN','AT','LA','LA','NC','NC','NV','NC','SD','SD','IV','SD') MARKET,
CYDATE,
BILL_CYCLE,
DECODE(RMR_IND,'H','HOME AIRTIME','C','PASS THROUGH ROAMING','R','SWITCH ROAMING','F','SWITCH ROAMING') CALL_CATEGORY,
'03) UNBUNDLED RECORDS' HEADING_NAME,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) RE_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'RE',REC_CNT,0)) RE_TOTAL,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER1,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER2,
SUBSTR('N/A',1,3) WH_TIER3,
SUM(DECODE(ATYPE,'WH',REC_CNT,0)) WH_TOTAL,
'HM' SUM_TYPE,
'S1' SUM_LEVEL
FROM FBC1
WHERE RMR_IND = 'H'
AND CYDATE = '&&2'
AND BUNDLE_IND = 'UNBUNDLED'
GROUP BY
...<snip>...
and so forth for 1,556 lines!!! I think it was replaced with three reference tables, and about 20 lines of SQL with a clever join. |
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I once inherited a query from a contract developer. It was supposed to be an employee list joined up with some demographic and payroll information. It returned 3.6 million lines. I didn't know we had grown that much ;^) -------++NO CARRIER++-------
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As a research technician, I received the following brief from one of my research directors: Quote:"Here's the draft of a Patent we have applied for. Would you perform the experiments so that we can supply the figures to anyone who enquires about it."
A few years later and a different professor in a different college asked Quote:"Are you sure about these results? They contradict the figures I submitted to (name of well respected journal) last month."
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Quote (philhege):It returned 3.6 million lines. I didn't know we had grown that much ;^)
I bet that would have tied a line printer up for a while! Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
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, as you can see from mine, it's so illegible , there was nothing requiring obfuscation!